Cycling new system

[DmitryB]

I'm watching a BRS video on cycling tanks and they say it's quicker to cycle dry rock with fish than just throwing something to rot to start off the cycle. Which I guess makes sense, but putting in fish into an unicycled tank? Back in my day (LOL) when I had my system 15 years ago adding fish to an uncycled tank was anathema. Or am I making the "live rock vs. dry rock cycling" mistake here?? Back then we all used live rock. Now I'll be cycling dry rock. So... seriously add a fish and let it live there? Seems... unwise?? Am I misunderstanding their message?

It's this video and it's the second topic they discuss.

 

[Fish Fan]

I would cycle your tank with bottled bacteria and ammonia bicarbonate, I would not use live fish. If you must use live fish, try adding Fritz TurboStart specifically, it works the fastest at mitigating ammonia.

Good luck!

 

[DmitryB]

I'll probably start cycling dry rock in Brute buckets while waiting for the tank to arrive. Just seems cruel to throw a fish in there. There'll be a thermometer and a powerhead, but probably not keeping close enough of an eye on temperature and other things (kind of a "close enough" attitude) for a fish to be happy in. If it's just rock, a 3 degree temperature swing isn't a big deal (I assume?) vs. it is with a fish.

 

[DmitryB]

So actually this raises a few questions: since I'm going to start cycling LifeRock in a 44 gallon Brute bucket, there won't be a filter. Just rock, RODI water/salt, heater, pump.

- I assume I'm dosing this for a 44 gallon bucket not the ultimate 170 gallon system I'm setting up. (Seems obvious, but I've been wrong before. I'm looking at AlgaeBarn's RapidCycle kit, which includes Fritz Turbo Start and AlgaeBarn's Nitrocycle.)
- Do water changes?
- And once a tank is here, just move the rocks into it filled with new fresh water and discard the water it's been cycling in in the bucket?
- There won't be much room for sand in the bucket (I ordered a lot of LifeRock), so it's ok to just wait to add sand straight from the bag into the tank?

 

[Fish Fan]

- I assume I'm dosing this for a 44 gallon bucket not the ultimate 170 gallon system I'm setting up. (Seems obvious, but I've been wrong before. I'm looking at AlgaeBarn's RapidCycle kit, which includes Fritz Turbo Start and AlgaeBarn's Nitrocycle.)

In a bucket, you can't really overdose the bacteria. Add the ammonia as directed for the 44 gallon volume, you want to raise the ammonia to about 2.0 ppm verified on a test kit.

- Do water changes?

I wouldn't bother.

- And once a tank is here, just move the rocks into it filled with new fresh water and discard the water it's been cycling in in the bucket?

Yes.

- There won't be much room for sand in the bucket (I ordered a lot of LifeRock), so it's ok to just wait to add sand straight from the bag into the tank?

Yes.

I hope this helps!

 

[jonelder68]

While system will be cycled through seeding the rock in a brute can before tank arrives (same way I did) I would add a light to start the uglies out of tank. I would also dose phosphate to let that dry rock absorb it all and maintain detectable levels. Dry rock is a year long battle. I’ll never do it again without some serious prep work well beyond what I did before.

 

[DmitryB]

In a bucket, you can't really overdose the bacteria. Add the ammonia as directed for the 44 gallon volume, you want to raise the ammonia to about 2.0 ppm verified on a test kit.


I wouldn't bother.


Yes.


Yes.

I hope this helps!

Yes absolutely thank you!! I'll have more questions!

 

[DmitryB]

While system will be cycled through seeding the rock in a brute can before tank arrives (same way I did) I would add a light to start the uglies out of tank. I would also dose phosphate to let that dry rock absorb it all and maintain detectable levels. Dry rock is a year long battle. I’ll never do it again without some serious prep work well beyond what I did before.

Ok adding phosphate to my shopping cart!

 

[Fish Fan]

Yes absolutely thank you!! I'll have more questions!

Let us know

 

[jonelder68]

From previous experience you can prep dry rock all you want. Without tank par lighting it’s going to battle you for a good year or so. Why I suggest adding light after the bacteria is established. Out of tank in a bin it would easy to pull rocks to scrub of all the algae’s etc. I would also suggested adding a treasure chest box of Tampa bay Saltwater base rock to help bring in some biome to help kick start the process.

 

[DmitryB]

From previous experience you can prep dry rock all you want. Without tank par lighting it’s going to battle you for a good year or so. Why I suggest adding light after the bacteria is established. Out of tank in a bin it would easy to pull rocks to scrub of all the algae’s etc. I would also suggested adding a treasure chest box of Tampa bay Saltwater base rock to help bring in some biome to help kick start the process.

I can add a light for sure. I already ordered them. And I was just looking at some base rock rubble from GulfLiveRock. He currently has a package of 3 lbs of base rock rubble. As well as 1 lb of premium live rock rubble.

 

[Fish Fan]

I can add a light for sure. I already ordered them. And I was just looking at some base rock rubble from GulfLiveRock. He currently has a package of 3 lbs of base rock rubble. As well as 1 lb of premium live rock rubble.

In my opinion, adding real, ocean rock rubble would be the best thing you can do to seed your rock

 

[jonelder68]

How soon until the tank arrives? Or how long do you plan on leaving rock in bin to seed?

 

[DmitryB]

How soon until the tank arrives? Or how long do you plan on leaving rock in bin to seed?

IM is projecting end of July delivery of the tank. Some people say they often deliver much sooner. I was planning to start the LifeRock within the next week. (It's arriving early next week.) So possibly 2 months of rocks in bucket.

 

[jonelder68]

ah wow soon! I would get it set up and soaking and definitely get some ocean LR/rubble to speed it up quick! I would also start baking it all in light while keeping nitrate/phosphate levels.


For context here’s my macro rock aquascape pieces with 5lbs of TBS base ocean rock. Soaked it for 3.5 months! Tanks a year and few months old now and just finally slowing down on being an algae farm. Until the rocks coat in coralline algae they just grew every algae known to man over and over! It’s a blank canvas for algae etc.

Frag tank I’m setting up eventually I’m doing this same thing but after 2 months adding light. It’s fed off AWC waste water from DT tank so no need to dose bin of nitrate/phosphates. My hopes are to have the dry rock go through uglies in the bin and establish its biome and coat in coralline before setting up frag system. Probably will take a year or so of soaking in the bin.

Dry rocks slow and hard to get going. It can be done but just be prepared tank will be a rollercoaster for a while. I just hate seeing people give up/leave the hobby because of there results in the first year or so is an ugly tank no matter how hard they try.

 

[DmitryB]

I definitely won't be giving up! I had a 72 tank about 15 years ago I had to break down when I moved. So I have some base foundation, but back then it was all live rock, which was a bit different. And after all this time, I've forgotten many things. Plus so many things have changed as far as equipment, etc. So it's like 75% new! But I'm ready for what comes because I've done a lot of this before. I definitely forgot all the dosing and what needs to be tested. So that's a learning curve.

Just got my RO/DI unit today, so need to refresh my memory on all that works. And how to connect it to my sink. My faucet does not have an unscrew able tip, so need to find a way to tap into that water supply.

 

[NyteRyder1]

Following to learn. Great information in this thread! I think my plan will now include curing the rock in a bucket for a year. I never would have thought that would be a thing but I don’t plan to setup my tank until 2028 so I have time for that.

 

[vetteguy53081]

A cycle is called a cycle when two things occur. . . . when ammonia rises then falls and holds a steady reading of Zero for at least 5 days and also nitrate rises and falls and holds at 20 or below- you are cycled.
Did you add ammonia chloride or something to increase ammonia initially ?

 

[BeanAnimal]

A cycle is called a cycle when two things occur. . . . when ammonia rises then falls and holds a steady reading of Zero for at least 5 days and also nitrate rises and falls and holds at 20 or below- you are cycled.
Did you add ammonia chloride or something to increase ammonia initially ?

I wouldn’t worry a bit about testing nitrate levels to try and determine the stage of nitrification or add a caveat of 5 days.

If the system process ammonia, that is really all that matters. The rest will fall into place on its own.

I also wouldn’t keep dosing ammonia or bottled bacteria. Raise it once, let it head toward zero. Dose it up to 1 or 2 ppm again and watch it head toward zero. If that happens in 24 hours or so, the nitrification is seeded and on its way. So, good to go. 0.0 doesn’t matter. What matters is heading from 2 to 0.something in a reasonable timeframe.

 

[vetteguy53081]

I wouldn’t worry a bit about testing nitrate levels to try and determine the stage of nitrification or add a caveat of 5 days.

If the system process ammonia, that is really all that matters. The rest will fall into place on its own.

I also wouldn’t keep dosing ammonia or bottled bacteria. Raise it once, let it head toward zero. Dose it up to 1 or 2 ppm again and watch it head toward zero. If that happens in 24 hours or so, the nitrification is seeded and on its way. So, good to go. 0.0 doesn’t matter. What matters is heading from 2 to 0.something in a reasonable timeframe.

Correct- one time ammonia dosing and initial, not continuous.