Cycling problems.

[ILMX20]

Hey guys, I was hoping someone could help.
I'm currently cycling my first saltwater tank (Although i have three freshwater tanks,) but i cannot for the life of me get the Nitrites to go down. I know patience is key, but it been four. months. I'm going nuts!
I started the cycle by adding a dead prawn for 24 hours, and that kicked up the ammonia. The ammonia is now completely gone, but since the nitrites have risen, they refuse to budge. It's been months. I added another prawn for 24 hours two weeks ago, and the ammonia went up, and within four days was gone, but no difference in nitrites at all.
The nitrates are constantly fluctuating between 20 and 50 on my red sea test kit.
I'm just feeling a bit deflated about it and i'm hoping someone can help me.
I have the lights turned off, the skimmer is off, the temperature is 26*C, i'm using dry rock and sand. The Ph and Salinity are both good, too.
Thank you guys, hopefully you guys can help a newbie out

 

[Quietman]

Nitrites aren't a concern with saltwater (other than they need to make nitrates) - they aren't toxic to fish as they are in freshwater. If you have no ammonia and nitrates, you're cycled.

I would check your test kits on nitrites but I don't even check nitrites anymore cycling.

Edit for clarification:

Nitrite isn't as toxic in saltwater as chloride out competes nitrites for availability through fish gills. Chloride is 20k ppm ish. There are some fish more sensitive to nitrite but only at much higher concentrations than we'd see. Assuming your nitrites are <5-10 ppm wouldn't be concerned at all. Probably wouldn't be concerned at 50 ppm either.

Nitrites are toxic in FW so please keep testing that on your FW/planted cycles.

RHF article on Nitrites - there could be more current

 

[S.Pepper]

What Quietman said. However, here's a thread of me dealing with this issue. It should answer some questions you have.

cycling readings

Today marks the second week of cycling my tank. I used Dr. Tim's system. My ammonia reading showed zero today; however, my nitrite readings are off the chart and it has been that way for the last week. I've been dosing ammonia every other day and my ammonia goes down the next day, but today...

www.reef2reef.com

If you want, you can buy a bottle of Instant Ocean Bio-Spira and I guarantee the day after you put this in your tank, it will show 0 nitrites.

 

[brandon429]

Your tank is cycled buy nothing just start.

 

[brandon429]

We should use the collective power of the chem forum to prove or deny the possibility of sustained .25 ammonia in reefing

Why does it matter if reef tanks can have stuck cycles? Because when you move homes you don't want to lose animals, cycling science needs precision and predictability in order to protect our tanks. perhaps an emergency setup is needed, no wait time permitted or If you are invited to show...

www.reef2reef.com

The thread centers on ammonia hoaxing but we cover nitrite as well.

It is impossible to not be cycled and fully ready at four months, case closed, solely off submersion time. Post a pic of your tank




it’s not that some cycles stall, its that not one cycle in the history of reefing has stalled all have been wrong measure test kits.

 

[brandon429]

I’m tracking the notion of stalled cycling that induces buying of bottle bac well past when it is needed. half of bottle bac purchases are not required and don’t make a stuck cycle unstuck, no cycle can stall, half the purchases weren’t needed.

one of these days maybe, a counterpoint will speak at MACNA highlighting the false notion of expenditures around false cycling concepts, but for now we will just catch ‘em in threadwork.

any cycling chart online shows what your nitrite is on day thirty. By rule of microbiology, and ten thousand cycling charts, ammonia and nitrite are coupled at zero by day thirty.

measuring nitrite is not required in reefing, but if people know that they don’t click buy.

 

[ILMX20]

What Quietman said. However, here's a thread of me dealing with this issue. It should answer some questions you have.

cycling readings

Today marks the second week of cycling my tank. I used Dr. Tim's system. My ammonia reading showed zero today; however, my nitrite readings are off the chart and it has been that way for the last week. I've been dosing ammonia every other day and my ammonia goes down the next day, but today...

www.reef2reef.com

If you want, you can buy a bottle of Instant Ocean Bio-Spira and I guarantee the day after you put this in your tank, it will show 0 nitrites.

Would you recommend a water change? If i were to do a water change, should i wait before adding any livestock?? Thanks for your reply.

 

[Jason mack]

How much rockwork is in your tank...do you have a full tank shot too look at..?

 

[tankstudy]

Would you recommend a water change? If i were to do a water change, should i wait before adding any livestock?? Thanks for your reply.

Can you get an accurate reading for nitrite? Whether or not you really need one will depend on these numbers.

 

[brandon429]

Here’s what we are tracking in this thread so far out from the chem forum: all forms of casting doubt that this tank has somehow superseded all cycling charts online four times over in duration, after proofing with nitrate and ammonia control stated.

compare the resolve of post #4 with further inspection, waiting, retesting, hoping, doubting, and eventual purchase.

all roads lead to a purchase, we cannot resist. our power to not buy something has been stripped, the opposite of ‘you are ready‘ will prevail until the falsehoods around sales and cycling are resolved.

you are ready cannot be made simpler, but it cannot win where a purchase (add more rock, buy another test, buy bottle bac, add more shrimp, on and on) reduces doubt.


you could literally add coral right now per BRS videos that say it’s ready at four months, you have a whole other set of consulted salespeople who say your tank is ready right here:

Ep12: Finally the 4-month cycle explained! | BRS/WWC System

OK, but you aren’t off the hook just yet :) Aren’t you guys keeping the stats on the sucesses and failures? Bases on balls? Number of first downs in a quarter? Points per shot on goal? If you did, the credibility of your claims could be enhanced. Of course, the downside is the stats might show...

www.reef2reef.com

the state of cycling has been and will be in a mess until we add proofs and overcome them and then we get to have a talk podium to podium in front of the world.

any advice here to wait longer is directly challenging the brs video

how come everyone is singing like a choir in their thread, there’s no naysayers about four month cycling there?

sooo, wanna just add something and prove everyone wrong for the thousandth time on file

add a caulastrea coral and clean up crew if you want, they’ll live, because your tank is cycled three and a half months ago.

post full tank shot, you’d be amazed at cycling proofs they show, such as any form of growth like diatoms or cyano (by rule those always show after filtration is 100% ready/cycle complete)


we need a pic of your tank and then the spread eagle jordan dunk will occur

 

[ILMX20]

How much rockwork is in your tank...do you have a full tank shot too look at..?

Unfortunately i don't have a photo, but the tank is 30 gallons, and it has 11kg (24.3lbs) of rock work

 

[ILMX20]

Hey guys, I was hoping someone could help.
I'm currently cycling my first saltwater tank (Although i have three freshwater tanks,) but i cannot for the life of me get the Nitrites to go down. I know patience is key, but it been four. months. I'm going nuts!
I started the cycle by adding a dead prawn for 24 hours, and that kicked up the ammonia. The ammonia is now completely gone, but since the nitrites have risen, they refuse to budge. It's been months. I added another prawn for 24 hours two weeks ago, and the ammonia went up, and within four days was gone, but no difference in nitrites at all.
The nitrates are constantly fluctuating between 20 and 50 on my red sea test kit.
I'm just feeling a bit deflated about it and i'm hoping someone can help me.
I have the lights turned off, the skimmer is off, the temperature is 26*C, i'm using dry rock and sand. The Ph and Salinity are both good, too.
Thank you guys, hopefully you guys can help a newbie out

Some people have been asking for a picture, so I’ve taken one

 

[brandon429]

Thats pretty stark white ha nice but at four mos still cycled.

you are certainly not on your way to algae problems. You should do exactly what Daniel did here, he has a bone white new tank also ready:

Cycling a new Biocube 32

Hello all! My name is Daniel from Florida and I’m starting to get into the reef hobby. I have been cycling my tank for two weeks now and logging it into an app. I have recently been gifted a live rock with some good amount of coralline on it. I also got some water from and established tank. My...

www.reef2reef.com

that is a literal roadmap to your next steps. Buy six corals is next step, input them, begin feeding and water change. Never test for nitrite again ~

 

[ILMX20]

Thats pretty stark white ha nice but at four mos still cycled.

you are certainly not on your way to algae problems. You should do exactly what Daniel did here:

Cycling a new Biocube 32

Hello all! My name is Daniel from Florida and I’m starting to get into the reef hobby. I have been cycling my tank for two weeks now and logging it into an app. I have recently been gifted a live rock with some good amount of coralline on it. I also got some water from and established tank. My...

www.reef2reef.com

that is a literal roadmap to your next steps. Buy six corals is next step, input them, begin feeding and water change. Never test for nitrite again ~

a few of the rocks have some green algae on them, which didn't show up on the photo. Was just going to scrub it off? or should i leave it.

 

[brandon429]

Good deal just leave it. Clean it if it gets pronounced but that’s just a handy sign of something called primary producers, the first hitchhikers that attach to new reefs.
if you throw a cinder block into a reef, the order of ops is: bacteria stick first, then slime monerans like cyano or possibly tiny algae, then more wiry algae + cyano, then one day a tiny spec of coralline forms and that becomes the first spot algae cannot takeover.

clean up crews work the cinder block for its new growths, which makes more room for coralline, which self promotes into surfaces corals attach to, and by design they exclude algae

cinder block is now an sps reef

where is my MACNA video stating visual cycling procedure off known depositional timeframes independent of all testing and purchase? but I can easily find the video that says nitrite stalls a cycle+where to buy a remedy. Those rascals

we are trying to turn your whole reef into coralline so your algae work is less, but it will take manual cleaning over time as the rocks mature.

the timing you mentioned and the growths detail the order of ops that allows you to begin reefing, bacteria were there first, before the other successions we can know right now per your description.


in 100% of cases, time underwater is the determinant to a completed cycle. Visual proofing for benthic life/growths is secondary, and both of these mean we don’t have to actually test anything to cycle a reef tank because they’re proof nitrification is ready.

Cycles cannot ever ever ever stall, you can add new animals trusting that fact. Spend forty bucks on some new animals, acclimate and put them in. ****If they die I’ll PayPal you the money right now in recomp.


if they don’t die, I’ll keep this handy along with a thousand other proofs-your thread might wind up on a big projector one day

 

[ILMX20]

Can you get an accurate reading for nitrite? Whether or not you really need one will depend on these numbers.

The nitrite is consistently 1ppm (according to the Red Sea test kit i use)

 

[tankstudy]

The nitrite is consistently 1ppm (according to the Red Sea test kit i use)

That's actually pretty low.

If you have some fresh saltwater somewhere or can make some quick, test that to see what zero should look like and compare.

 

[brandon429]

That reading is perfect, it will prove that nitrite won’t matter. I’ll paypal you the lost amount if a starting bioload can’t survive, go to lfs and buy something, put it in. Considering that reading, when the animals live just fine, we will have more proof nitrite doesn’t factor in reefing and can’t be tested for accurately due to confounds.

tankstudy,
testing alternate water doesn’t calibrate the test, nitrate is a cross contaminator to the nitrite kit when he tests in display water.

we want your test kit to say there is nitrite, it will directly show that a reading of nitrite doesn’t matter. Spend forty bucks on new stuff, test is on.

 

[ILMX20]

That reading is perfect, it will prove that nitrite won’t matter. I’ll paypal you the lost amount if a starting bioload can’t survive, go to lfs and buy something, put it in. Considering that reading, when the animals live just fine, we will have more proof nitrite doesn’t factor in reefing and can’t be tested for accurately due to confounds.

tankstudy,
testing alternate water doesn’t calibrate the test, nitrate is a cross contaminator to the nitrite kit when he tests in display water. Apples to oranges.

we want your test kit to say there is nitrite, it will directly show that a reading of nitrite doesn’t matter. Spend forty bucks on new stuff, test is on.

Should i still change some of the water since my Nitrates are high?
Thanks for all your help!

 

[brandon429]

Let's prove it's simply ready no water change. Nitrate is not harmful and the reading we're basing from wouldn't line up with another test kit for nitrate 90% of the time.

What a fun thread I'm 100% confident that reef can be moved to a macna convention, attain the start date on time (if you've read my linked posts that example is a recurring theme) with an assortment of animals.

The reason we would go slowly is outlined in Daniel's thread, we're choosing which fish disease protocol to impart, and we're not trying to develop an algae challenge too fast... but that tank is simply ready with not one degree of hesitation further yep. I'll pay to prove it, they'll die in two days if it's not ready then ill recomp the price if they do

Grab a couple corals and some rods reef feed frozen and some snails they'll be fine.

Do the water change in a few days after we prove they're happy as is. We would begin feed/ water change action like Daniel's tank it's already up and going with two clown fish

I want to use your excellent non rushed planning and execution of this new tank to undo the notion of stuck cycles in this hobby, your aquarium is good for new science discoveries.