Cycling With Dr Tim's Ammonia + Brightwell MicroBacter Start XLM (pH, Ammonia, etc. HELP)

[JSkeleton]

So I'm cycling a Saltwater Aquarium (first time Saltwater) and it's been a few years since having a freshwater aquarium so I'm a bit rusty on the details.

I added Dr Tim's Ammonia to get the Ammonia kickstarted yesterday (August 11) and put a bit less than recommended because of reading some people saying recommended ended up being way too high (I needed 180 drops and put 140 instead).

I didn't put the Nitrifying bacteria in right away but waited about 12 hours (no reason, was just not feeling great and didn't have it in me to do anything else last night lol).
I tested my pH and Ammonia this morning (August 12) and my pH is sitting at about 7.8 and my Ammonia I'm guessing is 3.0 (I say guessing cause it's darker than 2.0 but lighter than 4.0 on the chart).

I thought I recalled hearing people say you want the ammonia to be between 2.0 and 5.0 max when adding the nitrifying bacteria, so I went ahead and added what the bottle (Brightwell MicroBacter Start XLM) recommended which was 6 caps per 25 gallons (I have a 55 Gallon so I added a bit more than 12 caps, about 15 or 16 caps).

So my question(s) are:
1. Is that a good range for the Ammonia to be in to then add the Nitrifying Bacteria (maybe I should have asked prior to adding it aha)?
2. Is my pH good (I heard you want it between 8.0 and 8.4 for saltwater, is that right?)? And if it needs to be higher, how do I increase it? And if lower, how do you lower it (water change?)?
3. Dr Tim's Ammonia Instructions seem confusing and seem to suggest adding MORE ammonia in a couple days? Is that right? Or from here on what exactly would I need to do to finish this cycle?

Worth noting: I have 2 Sicce pumps running for flow plus a heater set to about 77-78 (had to calibrate the heater this morning cause it was running at like 81 last night); I have my HOB Filter OFF (when should I turn it on?); I currently do NOT own a skimmer but heard I don't need one when setting up a Saltwater for the first few months?; About 1.5 inch of Arragonite for my substrate + 20lbs of Dry Rock that has a bit of red stuff on it (I think LFS website says that's some bacteria?) and about 8lbs of Purple "LifeRock".

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[KrisReef]

Turn the filter on, remove the media, it will help with circulation. Keep the lights off, no need to grow algae yet.

The nitratfying bacteria will be ok with the ammonia level. I don't recall the exact ppm the experts recommend but what you have the bacteria will eat. That is why the Dr's instructions say to add again. I would wait for the measured concentration to drop, close to zero, and then add another 100 drops and measure that to see what you get, and wait for it to dissappear. When it "dissappears" the bacteria are doing their job. You want to see nitrate start to build up too, for the same reason. After that all happens, a huge water change to remove excess nitrates and the tank will be "cycled" with bacteria that break down ammonia waste to nitrate. That will allow you to start adding other life forms like fish and coral, but add these slow as the newly cycled tank isn't very robust on a dry rock start with regards to a full microbiome.

Oh, and +8.0~ pH is important for coral, fishes are not as sensitive. Don't try to manipulate pH with buffers, it will generally do more harm than good. Bouncing the pH around with powers will stress life in the tank, let it ride.

 

[JSkeleton]

Turn the filter on, remove the media, it will help with circulation. Keep the lights off, no need to grow algae yet.

The nitratfying bacteria will be ok with the ammonia level. I don't recall the exact ppm the experts recommend but what you have the bacteria will eat. That is why the Dr's instructions say to add again. I would wait for the measured concentration to drop, close to zero, and then add another 100 drops and measure that to see what you get, and wait for it to dissappear. When it "dissappears" the bacteria are doing their job. You want to see nitrate start to build up too, for the same reason. After that all happens, a huge water change to remove excess nitrates and the tank will be "cycled" with bacteria that break down ammonia waste to nitrate. That will allow you to start adding other life forms like fish and coral, but add these slow as the newly cycled tank isn't very robust on a dry rock start with regards to a full microbiome.

Oh, and +8.0~ pH is important for coral, fishes are not as sensitive. Don't try to manipulate pH with buffers, it will generally do more harm than good. Bouncing the pH around with powers will stress life in the tank, let it ride.

I have 2 520 gph Sicce pumps on each side of my tank, should I still also turn on my Filter without the media in it? (Also, so literally nothing in it at all, not even the pad/sponge?).

If the bacteria eat the current ammonia, why would I need to add more ammonia a second time? That's the part that has me confused. Is it simply to ensure the bacteria has established fully or?

As for the water change, is that standard after a cycle? Keep hearing mixed things where some say as soon as I put the nitrifying bacteria in I can put fish in (I was gonna wait for the cycle to finish either way), some saying you don't need to do a water change at the end of the cycle, some saying you do. Very confusing xD

Also, was probably just gonna start with a couple clowns for the first while to be honest. Let the tank mature and let my Wife and I get accustomed to taking care of a Saltwater tank.

 

[KrisReef]

Yes, the second dose of ammonia is to see if the tank will process it, and how quikly. (Trust but verify? )
The nitrates that build up are exported by the water change at the end with the idea that your new water will be pristine vs polluted with nitrate when you add your pair of clowns. Helps keep the algae from exploding, perhaps?.

 

[JSkeleton]

Yes, the second dose of ammonia is to see if the tank will process it, and how quikly. (Trust but verify? )
The nitrates that build up are exported by the water change at the end with the idea that your new water will be pristine vs polluted with nitrate when you add your pair of clowns. Helps keep the algae from exploding, perhaps?.

Ohh gotcha, that makes sense! So it's a verification sort of thing just to be safe.

I always get nitrites and nitrates confused. Nitrites are what's harmful for the fish, right? But what about nitrates? Are nitrates just annoying cause they cause algae growth, or are nitrates also generally bad for the fish?

 

[KrisReef]

Ohh gotcha, that makes sense! So it's a verification sort of thing just to be safe.

I always get nitrites and nitrates confused. Nitrites are what's harmful for the fish, right? But what about nitrates? Are nitrates just annoying cause they cause algae growth, or are nitrates also generally bad for the fish?

Nitrites in freshwater are a problem, not so much in seawater. Nitrates are not a big deal but reef water is low in them. They are an algae nutrient, and a coral nutrient so folks try to keep them low but not zero for the general health of a marine system.

 

[Screwgunner]

I would leave every thing in the filter for bacteria to get ahold of.
Yes, do not worry about nitrite when you see nitrates and your ammonia is possessed in 24 hours I would do a big water change to get nitrates down. And start putting in a couple fish at a time.

 

[JSkeleton]

Nitrites in freshwater are a problem, not so much in seawater. Nitrates are not a big deal but reef water is low in them. They are an algae nutrient, and a coral nutrient so folks try to keep them low but not zero for the general health of a marine system.

Wait say again, nitrites are not a problem in seawater? How come?

And so Nitrates are good in low amounts for coral? But if you’re doing fish only it wouldn’t matter much? For coral though, how would you make sure they’re low but not 0?

Also, again for pH, if ideal is 8.0+ for coral but it’s under, you should just leave it be? Is there a too low or too high for saltwater fish?

 

[exnisstech]

What has been said but also I would not even worry about pH or anything thing but ammonia, Nitrites, and nitrates untill your cycle is totally and positively complete. If you are not careful you can end up chasing numbers that for many, especially a new tank ends up doing more harm than good and gets frustrating very quickly.

 

[KrisReef]

Reportedly, or Chemists say that nitrite is more toxic to fresh water fish vs salt. I don't know the chemistry/biochemistry explaination, but testing for nitrite in established systems is not a great concern for fish health. Not bottoming out nutrients is part art, part science, and good practice of successful reef keepers. The trick is to balance imports and exports. Imports are done by food additions, dosing chemicals or plankton, etc.

For fish tanks, people change water to keep parameters in check, remove detritus, and whatever the salt mixes to is generally good enough (As long as they use good mix water) for pH, Alk, calcium, magnesium, etc. In a tank the pH will "swing" during the day/night from biological activity and from air quality in the building where the tank is sitting.

For you, I think perhaps an Apex could be added to help monitor your tank and keep an eye on these parameters, giving alerts when it detects something it doesn't think is right. I just look at the fishes and coral and test if they don't seem happy.

 

[JSkeleton]

Reportedly, or Chemists say that nitrite is more toxic to fresh water fish vs salt. I don't know the chemistry/biochemistry explaination, but testing for nitrite in established systems is not a great concern for fish health. Not bottoming out nutrients is part art, part science, and good practice of successful reef keepers. The trick is to balance imports and exports. Imports are done by food additions, dosing chemicals or plankton, etc.

For fish tanks, people change water to keep parameters in check, remove detritus, and whatever the salt mixes to is generally good enough (As long as they use good mix water) for pH, Alk, calcium, magnesium, etc. In a tank the pH will "swing" during the day/night from biological activity and from air quality in the building where the tank is sitting.

For you, I think perhaps an Apex could be added to help monitor your tank and keep an eye on these parameters, giving alerts when it detects something it doesn't think is right. I just look at the fishes and coral and test if they don't seem happy.

Sheesh. The more I dig, the more it seems that the large majority is just trial and error and not much of a set of rules but more just general guidelines, eh? Haha

I've heard of an Apex but not entirely familiar. Are they expensive?

 

[KrisReef]

Very affordable, especially now they are on sale! I don't have one atm.

 

[JSkeleton]

Very affordable, especially now they are on sale! I don't have one atm.

Ouff $800? Haha Yeah not very affordable for me xD But sure looks great!

 

[Emerald Coast Reefer]

HELP. I put 30mil Microbacter Start XLM In my start up Biocube32. And Didn't realize I was supposed to add Dr. Tims ammonia first, Did I just destroy everything Ive worked so hard for, or is there a fix for this? And to top It all off ,I just watched a video that said not to use live sand or Coraline dry rock, and of coarse that's what I did. Is it the end of the world or will it just take longer? I got the time not in a rush.