Denitrifying bacteria and phosphate

Randy Holmes-Farley

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I'm not satisfied with this reasoning. If phosphate was indeed maintained at 0.00 (whatever that means, precision to that level is often below the detection limits), then adsorption would be very slow. My understanding is that it is an equilibrium process, much like GFO. There are some calculations in the thread Randy linked to, but in order for the sand to be a "smoking gun", I would think the tank would have had to have seen significantly elevated phosphate at some point prior. One possible exception would be greatly increased local phosphate concentrations in the sand bed, but I don't know enough about that to comment on it.

There are a lot of variables, though. Perhaps the sand was stirred accidentally, releasing nutrients into the water. Perhaps the bacterial population crashed. The list goes on.

I agree. :)
 

rockskimmerflow

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I'm not satisfied with this reasoning. If phosphate was indeed maintained at 0.00 (whatever that means, precision to that level is often below the detection limits), then adsorption would be very slow. My understanding is that it is an equilibrium process, much like GFO. There are some calculations in the thread Randy linked to, but in order for the sand to be a "smoking gun", I would think the tank would have had to have seen significantly elevated phosphate at some point prior. One possible exception would be greatly increased local phosphate concentrations in the sand bed, but I don't know enough about that to comment on it.

There are a lot of variables, though. Perhaps the sand was stirred accidentally, releasing nutrients into the water. Perhaps the bacterial population crashed. The list goes on.
Im not saying thats the only variable by any stretch. I suspect vigorous uptake of nutrient in the water column by the organisms is a major contributer to levels lower than equilibrium being detected And Im also sure when they tell me its 0.00 that its not truly zero, but near it. And Im also sure levels began to spike before they noticed a phos increase since things start to strip tissue before the test kit comes out in a lot of cases with hobbyists. I call it cruise control syndrome. Too much success for too long can make any of us lazy about things like regular testing.

I didnt mean to rile up all the DSB users as I really just wanted some help understanding the capacity for phosphate that large surface areas of aragonite can sequester. Which Randy has confirmed quite sufficiently for me.
 

rosshamsandwich

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then perhaps that's why certain algaes grow on top of these rocks say Pukani for instance... GFo would help a lot I'd wager.. Otherwise I think its' another one bites the dust to LARS
 

Lasse

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With phosphorus its like this - the amount you put into your tank as bio load (in the start, with new fishes, with new corals and so one) and with the food you put in will be there in one or another form if you do not take away P with help of GFO, macro algae, corals and whatever. It can be in the form of dissolved inorganic phosphorus (PO4), as fish, as corals, as algae, as whatever animal, as bacteria, as metal bound P and so on. All of these forms of P can be transferred to each of the other forms.

Sincerely Lasse
 

rosshamsandwich

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what is the chemical makeup of fish poop? is there iodine, phosphate, manganese, iron, etc. etc. in fish poop?
 

Gareth elliott

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what is the chemical makeup of fish poop? is there iodine, phosphate, manganese, iron, etc. etc. in fish poop?
There is trace elements that were not used for bodily functions what percentages would vary greatly by species and the food stuffs ingested. As well as how a particular compound is handled by the digestive system. Ie vitamin c in humans readily leaves the body through waste, vitamin b6 on the other hand, is removed much slower.

http://www.aps.uoguelph.ca/aquacent...ecal Waste Chemical Composition (Jun2007).pdf
 

Lasse

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If we look at the main building bricks - C, P and N (carbon, phosphorus and nitrogen) - a growing animal will take up some of these bricks as biomass - some of it (or old C, N and P) will be released out from the body again in one or another way. A starving animal will release more of these substances than it take up and an animal in steady state (often a grown ups) will release exactly the same amount of these bricks
as it takes up through the food. For animals (heterotroph organisms - consumers) - the energy for all these processes is incorporated in the food but for plants and algae (and some bacteria as nitrification bacteria) the energy for all processes is taken from the outside (light, chemical energy and so on). these organism is normally seen as primary producers or as autotroph organisms. An autotroph organism normally convert all building blocks it need into biomass or for the organism useful molecules.

Sincerely Lasse
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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what is the chemical makeup of fish poop? is there iodine, phosphate, manganese, iron, etc. etc. in fish poop?

Yes. The amount obviously depends on what the food was and what is eating it.
 
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