Differences between Nano tanks and larger tanks

[Surfandturf]

I agree with this. I have a 10gallon with 5.5gallon fuge. And this thing can get messy (I don't have a vacuum). I never started with live rock but dry rock and live sand with biospira was a 2week cycle (at that time it was just the 10gallon). Later I started a QT that got fish in it the same day using one of the filters that was running in the DT that probably had the beneficial bacteria already colonized. No rock or sand in QT. That hosted fish in 24 hrs.

Also idk if it is just me but clean up crews suck lol. I don't have any real noticeable difference. Actually most of mine are dead except 1-2 crabs and 2 nassarius snails. I don't plane to replace any. It makes more of a difference if I just add a filter or scrub the algae on the glass lol

As for maintenance I add water to it about every two days and feed daily. Probably clean the glass every week. And a large water change every 1-2 weeks.

You should look at getting an ATO. My salinity is much more stable after adding that.

 

[Reeferdood]

I still like bigger tanks with DSB's!!!:p

 

[Surfandturf]

I still like bigger tanks with DSB's!!!:p

Lol

 

[Frop]

You should look at getting an ATO. My salinity is much more stable after adding that.

Ya I'm upgrading soon to a larger tank soon (maybe 1-2monthd). I'm keeping my eyes open for a used ATO.

 

[Reeferdood]

Pulled out the Ca Rx and went back to the pumps today....

 

[Surfandturf]

Pulled out the Ca Rx and went back to the pumps today....

Nice

 

[Surfandturf]

Ya I'm upgrading soon to a larger tank soon (maybe 1-2monthd). I'm keeping my eyes open for a used ATO.

Yea me too. I want at leat 100g. I want to try to make it as self sustaining as possible.

 

[Coastie Reefer]

Great points! This is why I love R2R! We have so many smart, experienced folks here. I am no no Randy Holmes or a biologist lol. I am a financial analyst so it is safe to assume that I over analyze things. These discussions are great because I not only see my aquarium as a beautiful slice of the ocean, but also an ongoing science experiment. Maybe bacteria picks and chooses where it lives when given the option of live sand or live rock. I do know from my past experience of a deep sand bed (purchased in bags of live sand) and 14 pounds of live rock for my bio cube 14, I had one heck of a cycle! When I set this tank up, I had live rock and saltwater from the same lfs. No cycle. I tested every day for 3 weeks waiting for it. Nothing. I even added live nitrifying bacteria. Still nothing lol. I waited the full 6 weeks before I put anything in and I have not experienced a crash yet (knock on wood). Now that deep sand bed started getting gunky in my bio cube I started vacuuming 1/3 of the sandbed each week and boom no issues.

Hey I'm a former Coastie, U.S. Coast Guard, so my tanks are my way of having a little of my olden days in my house. I now have an accounting degree and work as an analyst myself, lol. My sps frag tank is in the small walkin closet of our spare bedroom. My wife walked in there the other day when I was testing alk a calcium... she said this place looks like some weird science experiment LOL. I know exactly where you're coming from! ;)

 

[Surfandturf]

Hey I'm a former Coastie, U.S. Coast Guard, so my tanks are my way of having a little of my olden days in my house. I now have an accounting degree and work as an analyst myself, lol. My sps frag tank is in the small walkin closet of our spare bedroom. My wife walked in there the other day when I was testing alk a calcium... she said this place looks like some weird science experiment LOL. I know exactly where you're coming from! ;)

Thanks for your service! I was in the Army for 12. Left it for less dangerous pastures. Now I frag zoas lol.

 

[Tori]

Great points! This is why I love R2R! We have so many smart, experienced folks here. I am no no Randy Holmes or a biologist lol. I am a financial analyst so it is safe to assume that I over analyze things. These discussions are great because I not only see my aquarium as a beautiful slice of the ocean, but also an ongoing science experiment. Maybe bacteria picks and chooses where it lives when given the option of live sand or live rock. I do know from my past experience of a deep sand bed (purchased in bags of live sand) and 14 pounds of live rock for my bio cube 14, I had one heck of a cycle! When I set this tank up, I had live rock and saltwater from the same lfs. No cycle. I tested every day for 3 weeks waiting for it. Nothing. I even added live nitrifying bacteria. Still nothing lol. I waited the full 6 weeks before I put anything in and I have not experienced a crash yet (knock on wood). Now that deep sand bed started getting gunky in my bio cube I started vacuuming 1/3 of the sandbed each week and boom no issues.

Those are very good points too. I can see how having a lot of sand can be a detritus tap. I don't have any experience with deep sand beds but from what I've read just on here a true deep sand bed seems pretty complex. I think it incorporates different gradients of sand throughout the layers. Coud be a reason you ran into issues but as long as you found something that works for you you're golden. DSBs are dnitely beyond my experience level right now so take whatever I say about them with a grain of salt.

 

[Frop]

I now have an accounting degree and work as an analyst myself,

I know 8 or more people with a college degree personally. Literally only one of those is working in their degree. That would be the computer programmer cousin of mine.

My wife and I also have schooling but sadly neither of us were able to find an available job locally. I am a QC. Check car parts and tell the company they're good to manufacture. Ironically zero training lol

 

[Surfandturf]

I know 8 or more people with a college degree personally. Literally only one of those is working in their degree. That would be the computer programmer cousin of mine.

My wife and I also have schooling but sadly neither of us were able to find an available job locally. I am a QC. Check car parts and tell the company they're good to manufacture. Ironically zero training lol

Yea it is harder and harder these days.

 

[Frop]

Yea it is harder and harder these days.

My personal opinion is, a person shouldn't get a degree unless they're in the medical field. Age of Google now, YouTube university now. I could understand before the internet.

Our current job doesn't respect schooling. Like others which may require it. Here they pay as least as possible. Finding someone with a degree just means it will cost them more money. lol

 

[singleshot]

I have a bio cube that's been up and running for almost 2 years now, it's the 14 gallon version with the power compact light not the newer led ones. I have 2 clowns in there, 7-9 pounds of live rock and a 20 pound bag of live sand. Also 10 corals all Lps. I set this up on a whim, it was a very impulsive buy I had wanted to get back into the hobby and picked up the cube and everything one day and the very next the wife wanted fish, so that's when the clowns came in. So day 1 1/2 I had fish in it. I knew all this was not the right route but did it anyway. Long story shorter needed lots of attention the first month or so but after that not so much. I travel a lot for work and my wife takes care of it while I'm gone all she does is a 5g water change and feed.

 

[Surfandturf]

I have a bio cube that's been up and running for almost 2 years now, it's the 14 gallon version with the power compact light not the newer led ones. I have 2 clowns in there, 7-9 pounds of live rock and a 20 pound bag of live sand. Also 10 corals all Lps. I set this up on a whim, it was a very impulsive buy I had wanted to get back into the hobby and picked up the cube and everything one day and the very next the wife wanted fish, so that's when the clowns came in. So day 1 1/2 I had fish in it. I knew all this was not the right route but did it anyway. Long story shorter needed lots of attention the first month or so but after that not so much. I travel a lot for work and my wife takes care of it while I'm gone all she does is a 5g water change and feed.

Wow you get the wife to take care of it! Nice! My wife wants a 100+gallon bow front corner tank. I told her that if I find one...she has to clean the glass!

 

[singleshot]

Wow you get the wife to take care of it! Nice! My wife wants a 100+gallon bow front corner tank. I told her that if I find one...she has to clean the glass!

Lol yeah my wife is great she just has to turn some values and the water is changed for her. She wants a bigger tank and to use the biicube as a QT tank or a sea horse tank now.. ( I know I hit the lotto with my wife) I asked how big of a tank she wanted to go up to and her response was... well how big of a tank can we fit in the house and still look good. So after finding the right spot in the house and taking measurements we settled on a 220g tank for the upgrade.

 

[hart24601]

Yeah the sand is 100% aesthetic, and it's only about an inch deep. I'm no microbiologist, but I do know that bacteria is one of if not the most prolific and versatile forms of life that exists. I doubt an established bacteria colony would starve from lack of feeding. If you consider large volume sps dominate systems run ultra low nutrients, often by avoiding excessive feeding, with no worries about bacteria die off. Also you have to consider that it's not only uneaten food that feeds the bacteria, but the fish poop, shrimp poop, and anything else that poops in our tanks.

I am a.microbiologist by school and occupation although molecular biologist is probably more like most mico now anyway. Nothing wrong with sand for aesthetically pleasing reason, just good to be aware the special challenges it has in a nano tank.

There isn't a worry from die off from lack of feeding really. The bacteria in sand or bb tanks grows to the amount of "food" present. Yes some will die if that food drastically decreases but not any more in bb or sand as the population is the same.

Even with minimal displays and BB coupled with pretty decent bioloads we see currently in vogue there have not been any reports that I have seen of ammonia or nitrite that these systems are unable to process due to lack of surface area. This indicates to me that live rock has more than enough surface area for our tanks - in fact we seem to have a great overabundance of surface area at least in reef tanks. Less so in heavy stocked fish only system or as some like to keep fw monsters in totally bare tanks.

Sand for looks is great reason, and also if you enjoy looking at sand inverts, but the increased surface area for bacteria isn't needed. Just be aware of some risks if keeping sand in a nano. I don't recommend it especially for beginners. Lots of good looking other options out there imo.

 

[Surfandturf]

I am a.microbiologist by school and occupation although molecular biologist is probably more like most mico now anyway. Nothing wrong with sand for aesthetically pleasing reason, just good to be aware the special challenges it has in a nano tank.

There isn't a worry from die off from lack of feeding really. The bacteria in sand or bb tanks grows to the amount of "food" present. Yes some will die if that food drastically decreases but not any more in bb or sand as the population is the same.

Even with minimal displays and BB coupled with pretty decent bioloads we see currently in vogue there have not been any reports that I have seen of ammonia or nitrite that these systems are unable to process due to lack of surface area. This indicates to me that live rock has more than enough surface area for our tanks - in fact we seem to have a great overabundance of surface area at least in reef tanks. Less so in heavy stocked fish only system or as some like to keep fw monsters in totally bare tanks.

Sand for looks is great reason, and also if you enjoy looking at sand inverts, but the increased surface area for bacteria isn't needed. Just be aware of some risks if keeping sand in a nano. I don't recommend it especially for beginners. Lots of good looking other options out there imo.

I agree with your post. I think many people believe that more is better even though your system can only sustain so much good bacteria. I see a lot of folks that think they can add a deep sand bed and a ton of live rock and believe that they can do less maintenance ie water changes. I think that they miss the point entirely with this theory. In my opinion, if water volume is too low when considering bioload, won't ammonia spikes become more prevalent? I look at it as dropping food coloring in 1 cup of water vs 1 gal of water. You will see a larger change in the cup when you add one drop when compared to when you add it to the full galllon. I would also assume that wc would be more harsh to the system due to the amount of water being taken out of a tank that has more surface area like 10 lbs of live rock and a deep sand bed in a 10 gallon vs 8 lbs live rock BB. Seems like nutrient depreciation in the water column would happen at a lot faster pace due to smaller water changes.

 

[Coastie Reefer]

I look at it as dropping food coloring in 1 cup of water vs 1 gal of water.

Really like this analogy, and I totally agree. I guess it really all boils down to what kind of work people are willing to put into their tanks. Also what "Bob" considers a lot of time spent on maintenance is not necessarily what "Joe" considers a lot of time spent on maintenance. Our tanks, nano or large, are as different as the people setting them up. It all depends on the approach.

I would also assume that wc would be more harsh to the system due to the amount of water being taken out of a tank that has more surface area like 10 lbs of live rock and a deep sand bed in a 10 gallon vs 8 lbs live rock BB. Seems like nutrient depreciation in the water column would happen at a lot faster pace due to smaller water changes.

To this point however, I've never heard of a water change being "harsh"... If anything when we see a problem, most often the first advice given is "do a water change". Also, for a lot of people that keep SPS/LPS heavy nanos, water changes are a primary source of stable dKH, Ca, and Mg. I could see going a long time without a water change, letting Alk be depleted, then doing a water change with a significantly higher Alk being a major problem.

I guess my stance on rock and sand essentially breaks down like this. Get some rock and scape your tank how you want, but you can't just completely fill it up. If it happens to be 5 lbs or 15 lbs as long as there's ample room so be it. Sand, as long as it's less than 2" and it's stirred every so often or vacuumed when you do a water change there shouldn't be an issue. Again, just my take.

 

[Surfandturf]

Really like this analogy, and I totally agree. I guess it really all boils down to what kind of work people are willing to put into their tanks. Also what "Bob" considers a lot of time spent on maintenance is not necessarily what "Joe" considers a lot of time spent on maintenance. Our tanks, nano or large, are as different as the people setting them up. It all depends on the approach.



To this point however, I've never heard of a water change being "harsh"... If anything when we see a problem, most often the first advice given is "do a water change". Also, for a lot of people that keep SPS/LPS heavy nanos, water changes are a primary source of stable dKH, Ca, and Mg. I could see going a long time without a water change, letting Alk be depleted, then doing a water change with a significantly higher Alk being a major problem.

I guess my stance on rock and sand essentially breaks down like this. Get some rock and scape your tank how you want, but you can't just completely fill it up. If it happens to be 5 lbs or 15 lbs as long as there's ample room so be it. Sand, as long as it's less than 2" and it's stirred every so often or vacuumed when you do a water change there shouldn't be an issue. Again, just my take.

I agree with you. I guess what I mean by harsh is that a water change of 1 gallon is a much larger wc for a 10gal with 12 lbs of live rock and a deep sand bed as opposed to the same 1 gallon wc to a BB tank with 8lbs live rock. I would consider it less of a shock to the system because there is more water volume. Basically a larger wc compared to a smaller wc. I have always been told that its not good to do large water changes.