Dinoflagellates - dinos a possible cure!? Follow along and see!

[BoomCorals]

I'd suggest a more up to date thread:
Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

Thank you!

 

[taricha]

Probably the single most important 'pod' I've observed in systems that have reestablished a healthy balance and defeated dino (O. ovata). They look like short centipedes right?

Same here. Munnid isopods in my tank also during/after Dino bloom. Seen grazing on dinos here.

And I have to say that copepods seem a poor match vs Dinos. Too small, feeding mechanism likely not suited to Dinos, they end up covered in Dino mucus and dead. The below pod was swimming and alive, for a little while anyway.

Amphipods may be useful too, tough, strong, not picky eaters. But I dunno.

Not claiming miracle cures, just adding to anecdotal evidence. Thanks, rockskimmerflow.
I'm gonna see if I can maybe capture and culture up some munnid isopods.

@mcarroll has given the only advice I can endorse so far. The natural method is the only effective method I've come across. I do this for a living and if I had to reset a tank every time I encountered a new customer with dino I wouldn't be comfortable calling myself a professional. Nutrients, biodiversity, and (green) algaes work!!!! Good luck to everybody in the eye of the dino storm - it does get better.

 

[mcarroll]

I still don't know for sure either, but I think that copepods and amphipods are only the (visible) tip of the iceberg.....I think they both have a key role in eliminating dino's, but the smaller the more outmatched they are vs toxins. (Size determines relative dose.)

If we could see better into healthy tanks I think we'd see a range of cilliates, amoebas, peremecia, bacterial, phages, viruses, etc, et al....that ALL were making moves against dino's all the time.

Then add in critters like diatoms that have their own secret weapons vs dino's and you've got the makings of a route – a retreat!

They don't all survive, but they all make an important contribution.

At least that's what I suspect is going on.

(SOMETHING sure gets the dino's gone in a hurry when the solution works!)

 

[ENARP]

Jonas Roman What do you consider a stable not too high dkh and what did you do to achieve and maintain it?

I developed Dino's after watching a video from MACNA on how to grow corals fast. I can't find the video now, but the speaker talked about raising dkh and calcium. Monti Caps and Digitata took off growing and then bam Dinos showed. I quit dosing and have slowed water changes (mainly due to being out of town) and it has seemed to reduce the amount od dinos present. I am just about to the point of scrapping everything and taking up finger painting..........

 

[taricha]

I still don't know for sure either, but I think that copepods and amphipods are only the (visible) tip of the iceberg.....
If we could see better into healthy tanks I think we'd see a range of cilliates, amoebas, peremecia, bacterial, phages, viruses, etc, et al....that ALL were making moves against dino's all the time.

Well said. Through a microscope, the biodiversity is night and day difference between a patch of dino sand and a patch of healthy sand in a tank that has beaten dinos.
The dino sand is dinos, their mucus/bacterial films, often some cyano, and very little else. The toxins and their chemical control is so good at pushing everything else out.
Healthy sand in a elevated nutrient, post-dino tank is a wriggling jungle of pods, worms, ostracods, and ciliates - dozens of kinds of ciliates. And that's just what our scopes can see.
Just a question of best path to break dino grip (and it's a strong chemical grip) and move from A -> B.

Now, take that healthy sandbed and run ULNS for a few months to starve it out. What do you think it'll look like? It'll look a lot more like a biodiversity desert that Dinos can easily take over.

 

[JonasRoman]

Jonas Roman What do you consider a stable not too high dkh and what did you do to achieve and maintain it?

I developed Dino's after watching a video from Reefapalooza on how to grow corals fast. I can't find the video now, but the speaker talked about raising dkh and calcium. Monti Caps and Digitata took off growing and then bam Dinos showed. I quit dosing and have slowed water changes (mainly due to being out of town) and it has seemed to reduce the amount od dinos present. I am just about to the point of scrapping everything and taking up finger painting..........

I consider s stable dKH when it moves around +- 0.5dKH during 24 hours. And concerning the absolute value I think you should not go above 9. I achieved that by measuring very often (with for instance my own builded KH-machine which will soon be a commercial product), and according to these frequent measure, could fine-tune the calcium reactor and notice when something was going down(or up) and doing an action in time

 

[CoralWealth]

Not sure what is going on but ever since I have gone on vacation, I have dino problems which are getting very annoying and now are going ontop some of the tips of my SPS like pictured above.

Just tested my water:

Nitrate are between 4-8
Phosphates are 0.03
Alk is 7
Calc is 430


I would not be worried if it was just on the sand, glass and rock but now it is growing on some of the tips of the corals. Do you guys just suggest I do nothing but blow it off as much as possible and hope my filter socks get it all? That is what I am doing now.

Still only using a skimmer and cheato, with the nutrient levels low. I do not want to add GFO, etc

As soon as I blow it off the tips of the coral, it legit is back on it within 5 minutes every single time.

 

[Monkeynaut]

Anyone still collecting scrapings of possible dinos for identification?

 

[mcarroll]

@Monkeynaut just something else to consider....

I haven't used it yet, but I just ordered the following scope for $12 to get me started:



Yoptote Science Microscope Kit for Children 100x 400x 1200x Refined Scientific Instruments Toy Set for Early Education

I'm planning to spend $50-$350 on a real scope someday*, but there are way too many great options to select from and I haven't even had my hands on one at all yet. I figure after some time at the $12 level I'll have a much better idea what I really want.

*Selecting a microscope

@codydemmel4 Just to suggest it in case you haven't been there yet...Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether? Also, if you don't already have a thread of your own where you've posted about your tank, test parameters, etc, you should create one. Post a link to it here and/or PM it to me.

 

[mcarroll]

Now, take that healthy sandbed and run ULNS for a few months to starve it out. What do you think it'll look like? It'll look a lot more like a biodiversity desert that Dinos can easily take over.

Healthy sand in a elevated nutrient, post-dino tank is a wriggling jungle of pods, worms, ostracods, and ciliates - dozens of kinds of ciliates. And that's just what our scopes can see.

I'd love to be able to compare the sand and rocks in a tank like @Paul B 's that gets "regular updates" from the ocean.

 

[Reeferhigh]

I'm considering going out to the mangroves and getting some mud. A teaspoon of mud contains around 10 billion bacteria. Anyone think this can go wrong? Lol

 

[K. Steven]

I'm considering going out to the mangroves and getting some mud. A teaspoon of mud contains around 10 billion bacteria. Anyone think this can go wrong? Lol

I'd be cautious. Mangrove sediment is often anoxic and hydrogen sulfide can be present. Try getting coarser sediment further away from the mangroves, which should be less likely to harbor anaerobic sulfide and would probably contain more microfauna.

I like to pick out amphipods from dead seagrass wrack that has accumulated on the shore. If you turn some over, you can usually find them jumping around.

 

[mcarroll]

@Paul B has posted at least a few pics of the tide-pool where he collects if you wanna get an idea of what might work.

 

[CoralWealth]

@Monkeynaut just something else to consider....

I haven't used it yet, but I just ordered the following scope for $12 to get me started:



Yoptote Science Microscope Kit for Children 100x 400x 1200x Refined Scientific Instruments Toy Set for Early Education

I'm planning to spend $50-$350 on a real scope someday*, but there are way too many great options to select from and I haven't even had my hands on one at all yet. I figure after some time at the $12 level I'll have a much better idea what I really want.

*Selecting a microscope

@codydemmel4 Just to suggest it in case you haven't been there yet...Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether? Also, if you don't already have a thread of your own where you've posted about your tank, test parameters, etc, you should create one. Post a link to it here and/or PM it to me.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/my-sps-dominant-180g.309712/#post-3806599

 

[ENARP]

Well I am starting a 3 day black out tonight till Sunday evening. This weekend I will be ordering a load of copepods, a CUC consisting of some snails and maybe a hermit crab. I will blow everything off Sunday evening and see what we have. Monday evening I will do a water change. I will also adjust the light intensity down for a few days, slowly increasing it back to where it was before blackout. Still confused on any additives to use as everyone seems to have mixed results. Dinos have been reduced somewhat this week by blasting them a few times a day and manual removal, but now I think it is time to hit them with the blackout. Any additional recommendations will be greatly appreciated.

 

[mcarroll]

I developed Dino's after watching a video from Reefapalooza on how to grow corals fast.

Didn't know you could get dino's from watching TV?!?!?

This is a new transmission method! Sorry, I kid....

Well I am starting a 3 day black out tonight till Sunday evening. This weekend I will be ordering a load of copepods, a CUC consisting of some snails and maybe a hermit crab. I will blow everything off Sunday evening and see what we have. Monday evening I will do a water change. I will also adjust the light intensity down for a few days, slowly increasing it back to where it was before blackout. Still confused on any additives to use as everyone seems to have mixed results. Dinos have been reduced somewhat this week by blasting them a few times a day and manual removal, but now I think it is time to hit them with the blackout. Any additional recommendations will be greatly appreciated.

I'd suggest tuning in here and checking out people's results (read at least the first post and links too):
Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

To put it in a nutshell, correcting P (and N if needed) are usually successful.

If you haven't already made a thread for your own tank (which I would suggest, pls link here), can you post here or PM me with particulars on your tank? Especially the nutrient history and as much detail about what you think caused it as you can.

 

[ENARP]

Didn't know you could get dino's from watching TV?!?!?

This is a new transmission method! Sorry, I kid....



I'd suggest tuning in here and checking out people's results (read at least the first post and links too):
Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

To put it in a nutshell, correcting P (and N if needed) are usually successful.

If you haven't already made a thread for your own tank (which I would suggest, pls link here), can you post here or PM me with particulars on your tank? Especially the nutrient history and as much detail about what you think caused it as you can.

I hope you don't have any plans of becoming a stand up comedian......

I am assuming that P means Phosphates?... they Test 0.......and N means nitrates....they Test 0 also. If this is incorrect, please let me know what P and N represent in your previous post and how to correct them.

I think the "out break" was caused by raising the calcium and dkh to high levels to create an environment for optimum coral growth as presented in the aforementioned video clip from BRStv MACNA speaker. The two may not be related, but the timing of the "out break" appears to coincide with this activity.

Nutrient History (not sure what information is needed for a "Nutrient History")- Tank is 45 gal and contains 5 fish - fish are fed once a day frozen Mysis shrimp - 1/2 inch cube. Corals are fed once a week with Reef Roids - approximately 3 ml in solution. Two 5 gallon water changes weekly. This schedule has been constant for 1.5 years.

I do have a tank thread... https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-jbj-45-slow-ride.241051/

Again, Thanks for your response and help. This is my attempt to get back into the hobby after many years...I had reef tanks back in the "stone age" ..'80's..... I am still in the learning stages of the new "lingo" and new technology....

 

[FFJB]

I think GAC is a great idea when dealing with a bloom – at least hypothetically, I hoped that very fresh GAC would do a good job of adsorbing toxins from the water.

Keeping the toxins low would neutralize (or even partly neutralize) one of their main weapons.

This would be especially important in an Ostreopsis case IMO.



That was a great idea on May 4, 2017. So I did it.

BTW, for anyone who knows they are dealing with Ostreopsis, I've had a bunch of recent postings (up to this morning) on my blog. More confirmation that we're on the right track with most cases AND that Ostreopsis cases will need special handling. (Not a surprise in itself, but there are lots of specifics for a change! A more complete posting on R2R will hopefully follow when I get more time.)

Where do I find this blog

 

[mcarroll]

Where do I find this blog

I generally keep it linked in my sig, but you can find it here:
http://reeformadness.wordpress.com

 

[Paullawr]

Interestingly the blog discusses the entire opposite to what many are attempting to do with NP values.
It states low values initiate a bloom but for that bloom to continue and do well a flush of N and P is required. Higher NP increases toxicity.

So for the many whom start by shooting for low values, out comes this bloom (no doubt linked to temperature) then told by fellow reefers to up the NP levels. What we are doing is helping them on.

Excellent advice being handed out then.

So basically what we are saying is keep NP low by growing loads of brown algae in the display (nice!) and keep the tank temp to around 60f/15'c. I believe that's regarded by many as a cold water temperature.

Again not really the conditions / environment we are aiming for.

I've had a bloom osteo by the look of it. Not surprising as air temps hit 92'F for a sustained period. The water was noticeably warmer....

I'll manage as have in the past. Oh and that was with elevated NP for a sustained period of time. Really I just wanted to disprove the dirty water theory once and for all. For myself now, I have.