Dinos - Let's Discuss Iron & Traces in General

[Bear22]

Hey Guys,

One of the things that's comes up occasionally is iron and other traces with respect to dino management. That being said, I rarely see much detailed talk about traces and dinos. Jason Mack (and a few others) have mentioned traces, but they don't go into a lot of detail (maybe because not much detail is there for discussion).

Jason has used the term "pro salts" with respect to salt mixes and iron.

Now, I am using TM Pro salt and from best I can tell through various salt making companies it's one the salts that's high (ish) in iron content.

Should I consider another salt mix that's lower in iron content?

 

[EnterName]

I don't know if there are any public records of the mixture, but this thread shows something around 60µg/L Fe. That's somewhere between 6 and 20 times more than in the ocean I believe. Sounds insanely high compared to other parameters, but iron is taken up very fast and if you want to maintain natural levels you will need to add it daily to your tank (e.g. ATI Daily Traces #A, or Tropic Marin K+ Elements).

I personally don't think it makes much sense to let trace elements deplete during a dinoflagellate outbreak. If they can't get their iron from the water column, they will get it by preying on other organisms. This gives them an extreme advantage over for example microalgae that have to take it from the water column directly. That's why I would say it makes more sense to actually provide sufficient amounts of iron (and other trace elements) so competing/beneficial organisms have a chance to actually compete for dissolved nutrients and surface area/light.

Obviously you will also boost dinoflagellate growth for a moment, when not allowing certain trace elements to become a limiting factor, but if trace elements were the culprit of dinoflagellates they would be probably much easier to fix.

 

[danet888]

Hey Guys,

One of the things that's comes up occasionally is iron and other traces with respect to dino management. That being said, I rarely see much detailed talk about traces and dinos. Jason Mack (and a few others) have mentioned traces, but they don't go into a lot of detail (maybe because not much detail is there for discussion).

Jason has used the term "pro salts" with respect to salt mixes and iron.

Now, I am using TM Pro salt and from best I can tell through various salt making companies it's one the salts that's high (ish) in iron content.

Should I consider another salt mix that's lower in iron content?

It may be worth checking the actual iron level in the salt mix and testing the tank water before changing anything. If iron is genuinely elevated, then switching to a lower-iron mix could make sense; otherwise, there may be little benefit in changing a salt that is otherwise working well.

 

[EnterName]

Hey Guys,

One of the things that's comes up occasionally is iron and other traces with respect to dino management. That being said, I rarely see much detailed talk about traces and dinos. Jason Mack (and a few others) have mentioned traces, but they don't go into a lot of detail (maybe because not much detail is there for discussion).

Jason has used the term "pro salts" with respect to salt mixes and iron.

Now, I am using TM Pro salt and from best I can tell through various salt making companies it's one the salts that's high (ish) in iron content.

Should I consider another salt mix that's lower in iron content?

It may be worth checking the actual iron level in the salt mix and testing the tank water before changing anything. If iron is genuinely elevated, then switching to a lower-iron mix could make sense; otherwise, there may be little benefit in changing a salt that is otherwise working well.

Iron is elevated in this mix by design as far as I know. 60μg/L would be fine but I think OP will be below that.

 

[mcarroll]

For general reference..lots of good facts in it:

https://reefs.com/magazine/chemistry-and-the-aquarium-iron-in-a-reef-tank/

There are a seemingly infinite number of theories about what might or might not affect a dino bloom, 99.9% of which don't pan out.

Hopefully this makes a good experiment for the OP.

 

[Bear22]

For general reference..lots of good facts in it:

https://reefs.com/magazine/chemistry-and-the-aquarium-iron-in-a-reef-tank/

There are a seemingly infinite number of theories about what might or might not affect a dino bloom, 99.9% of which don't pan out.

Hopefully this makes a good experiment for the OP.

Now that's an understatement!

 

[BeanAnimal]

Iron is depleted extremely quickly, so I hardly think the amount in the salt mix matters much unless you are doing substantial continuous water changes. Otherwise, it is a blip with regard to dinos, which is what this thread is about.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I am also going to push back on the term "Pro Salt" - it is a marketing label, nothing more. There is no defined class of aquarium salts.

 

[sixty_reefer]

The bigger question for me is, if iron becomes limiting, who does it limit first?

Lowering iron might suppress dinoflagellates or it might suppress their competitors even more. Iron concentration alone doesn’t tell us which outcome we’ll get.

 

[Bear22]

The bigger question for me is, if iron becomes limiting, who does it limit first?

Lowering iron might suppress dinoflagellates or it might suppress their competitors even more. Iron concentration alone doesn’t tell us which outcome we’ll get.

Seems, my original question has been sidetracked/highjacked from excessive trace element(s) to limited elements. That's what I am wondering about - EXCESSIVE ;-)

What constitutes excessive? There is a wide variation in macro elements and trace elements with these salt mixes.

 

[sixty_reefer]

Seems, my original question has been sidetracked/highjacked from excessive trace element(s) to limited elements. That's what I am wondering about - EXCESSIVE ;-)

What constitutes excessive? There is a wide variation in macro elements and trace elements with these salt mixes.

I think the first question is what aquarists actually mean by “excessive”. Higher than NSW or another salt mix doesn’t automatically mean biologically excessive.

It may also depend on the biodiversity of the aquarium. The same iron input could have very different effects depending on which organisms are present, how quickly they take it up and who benefits from it. In one system it might contribute to dinoflagellates growth, while on another it could be rapidly incorporated by competing algae, microbes and other organisms.

So before calling a salt “excessive” in iron, wouldn’t we need to show that the iron remains bioavailable at a concentration high enough and for long enough to produce the unwanted biological effect?