Dinos or cyano?

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Mattyreefs

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Sorry I know there's a ton of posts on dinos vs cyano but I still can't figure out what I'm dealing with.

For a couple weeks I've thought it was cyano. In person it looks a lot more like what I see online for cyano especially with blues on. But now I'm starting to think it's dinos?

Nitrates are around 10-12ppm and phosphate has been .10 but down to .04 today. I use Nyos for Nitrate and Hannah ULR for phosphate. I did go through a really bad outbreak of gha about a month ago and both bottomed out but I took care of that with a larger cuc. Haven't had any problem with gha in 2 or 3 weeks and then this popped up in its place. It disappears almost completely overnight and then slowly gets worse and worse all day.

 
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vetteguy53081

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Cyano
Cyano blooms typically start when water nutrient concentrations go haywire. Just like when you eat too much sugar and your waistline starts to bloom, the same happens in your tank when concentrations of phosphate, nitrate and other organic compounds are too high.
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with tiny air bubbles. As bubbles form from the reaction chamber, dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to a collection cup, where it rests as skimmate
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your aquarium with nutrients is often the culprit of a cyano bloom
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured which acts like a breeding ground for red slime algae
- If you don’t change your water with enough frequency, you’ll soon have a brightly colored red slime algae bloom. Regular water changes dilute nutrients that feed cyanobacteria and keeps your tank beautifully clear
- Using a water source with nitrates or phosphates is like rolling out the welcome mat for cyano. Tap water is an example
- Inadequate water flow, or movement, is a leading cause of cyano blooms. Slow moving water combined with excess dissolved nutrients is a recipe for pervasive red slime algae development

I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 5-7 days. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.

After the week, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.
 

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Yeah dinos don’t always present the same way with little airbubbles trapped inside, making the substance stringy, but you’re definitely right that a microscope would be the absolute way to know for sure. I’ve seen cyano in all weird kind of colors, but not brown/light brown, so my vote is still on it being dinos.
 
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Cyano
Cyano blooms typically start when water nutrient concentrations go haywire. Just like when you eat too much sugar and your waistline starts to bloom, the same happens in your tank when concentrations of phosphate, nitrate and other organic compounds are too high.
Some of the most common causes include:
- Protein skimmer which fills water with tiny air bubbles. As bubbles form from the reaction chamber, dissolved organic compound molecules stick to them. Foam forms at the surface of the water and is then transferred to a collection cup, where it rests as skimmate
- Overstocking / overfeeding, your aquarium with nutrients is often the culprit of a cyano bloom
- Adding live rock that isn’t completely cured which acts like a breeding ground for red slime algae
- If you don’t change your water with enough frequency, you’ll soon have a brightly colored red slime algae bloom. Regular water changes dilute nutrients that feed cyanobacteria and keeps your tank beautifully clear
- Using a water source with nitrates or phosphates is like rolling out the welcome mat for cyano. Tap water is an example
- Inadequate water flow, or movement, is a leading cause of cyano blooms. Slow moving water combined with excess dissolved nutrients is a recipe for pervasive red slime algae development

I recommend to reduce white light intensity or even turn them off for 5-7 days. Add liquid bacteria daily for a week during the day at 1.5ml per 10 gallons. Add Hydrogen peroxide at night at 1ml per 10 gallons. Add a pouch of chemipure Elite which will balance phos and nitrate and keep them in check.

After the week, add a few snails such as cerith, margarita, astrea and nassarius plus 6-8 blue leg hermits to take control.
Forgot to add that I did dose chemiclean twice a week apart which didn't seem to help at all. Still think it's cyano?

I don't use a Skimmer and haven't added any live rock. I use 0 tdi RODI water and do a 25% wc once a week.
 
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Mattyreefs

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Yeah dinos don’t always present the same way with little airbubbles trapped inside, making the substance stringy, but you’re definitely right that a microscope would be the absolute way to know for sure. I’ve seen cyano in all weird kind of colors, but not brown/light brown, so my vote is still on it being dinos.
Recommend a cheap microscope I could pick up on Amazon?
 
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Recommend a cheap microscope I could pick up on Amazon?
‘For any basic identification involving marine diatoms, dinoflagellates and coccolithophorids i will suggest for an inverted Microscope with minimal 100x or 400x magnification for the baseline requirements”

I’d go with 400x personally I think it’s defo Dino just need the microscope to id what type you have
 
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Defiinetely looking like dinoflagellates. If you don't already know how to take care of them, let us know! Can give you instructions passed along to us by Julian Sprung.
I've already done a ton of research but honestly still not sure where to start. I'd definitely appreciate whatever insight you can share!
 
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‘For any basic identification involving marine diatoms, dinoflagellates and coccolithophorids i will suggest for an inverted Microscope with minimal 100x or 400x magnification for the baseline requirements”

I’d go with 400x personally I think it’s defo Dino just need the microscope to id what type you have
Thanks, I'll look around for a 400x. Does treatment change much depending on the type?
 

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Cyano doesn’t disappear at night and get worse throughout the day Dino sure does Dino x worked for me however you’ll find mixed reviews it’s all depends on the type your fighting you could even have multiple types :/
 
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@Mattyreefs Yes as certain types such ostreopsis at night will go into the water column and a uv steriliser can help then you get amphidinium which will burrow into the substrate making a uv basically useless

a good thread for info below;


https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/
Thanks, read a bit of that thread but didn't get too deep because I wasn't sure it was cyano or dinos. I'll dive deeper now...

I did order a uv sterilizer so we'll see how that goes. Tank is an IM lagoon 25 so options are limited. We'll see how the aqua shield uv works out.
 

DE FISH

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Thanks, read a bit of that thread but didn't get too deep because I wasn't sure it was cyano or dinos. I'll dive deeper now...

I did order a uv sterilizer so we'll see how that goes. Tank is an IM lagoon 25 so options are limited. We'll see how the aqua shield uv works out.
Personally I would forget the uv until you get a microscope to Id the type you have as the uv could be unnecessary depending on what you got in the tank
 

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I don’t think anyone else asked so here goes… What is your current CUC? And yes Dino is what you are looking at. Did I read correctly that you have no live rock? If it’s only on your sand you definitely need something in the tank to sift through it. Nassau Snails are awesome at it or a conch snail even a sand sifting star fish or brittle. Just a thought. Won’t fix problem but could help.
 

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Forgot to add that I did dose chemiclean twice a week apart which didn't seem to help at all. Still think it's cyano?

I don't use a Skimmer and haven't added any live rock. I use 0 tdi RODI water and do a 25% wc once a week.
yes. One way to tell is to turn off lights for an entire day and turn back on next morning. Cyano will literally lighten or dissipate whereas Dino will stick around. You can also blow loose with a turkey baster, and net it. As it falls apart, cyano will stick together whereas dino will fall apart in many pieces.
 
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I don’t think anyone else asked so here goes… What is your current CUC? And yes Dino is what you are looking at. Did I read correctly that you have no live rock? If it’s only on your sand you definitely need something in the tank to sift through it. Nassau Snails are awesome at it or a conch snail even a sand sifting star fish or brittle. Just a thought. Won’t fix problem but could help.
I have some live rock but none was added recently. Cuc was really minimal before the gha outbreak (5 astreas and 3 nassarius). Then I ordered a whole bunch from Reefcleaners and the gha was done in a couple days... Probably have too much now. Added 5 trochus, about 10 nerites and 7 virgin nerites, a bunch of ceriths and 2 scarlet legged hermits. Maybe need more nassarius to sift the sand?

And yeah it's only on the sand so far.
 
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