Disaster Avoided!!! - I think/hope

[mhowe9]

Today I went down to look at my tank (just upgraded from 90 gal to 180 on Friday). None of the fish were out and just hiding the rock work. I fed them and none of them ate. Am I having a cycle since I just upgraded? Checked all parameters were the following:

Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Ph: 8.4
Temp: 78 deg

I would say that the cycle was ruled out. Then I just remembered the one thing that I didn't check. Salinity. Which I checked last Thursday. Checked the salinity 1.027. I normally keep it around 1.021 to 1.023. I had approx. 24 gal on fresh RODI water so I did a quick water change. Taking out 24 gal salt and replacing it with just plan RODI water. Took about 5 minutes, but hopefully saved the inhabitants of my tank. The only fish I am worried about is the six-line wrasse since he was upside down under a rock. I will keep an eye on him and the salinity for the next couple of days.

Question: I have DIY live rock in my tank, did I have salt that didn't mix all the way or is the DIY rock leaching into my tank and causing the salinty to be so high? I didn't see any evidence of salt leaching in the tank now or for the last week that I was curing.

Thanks for your help and sorry for the long post.

 

[cparka23]

I don't think the rock would cause the salinity to increase so dramatically, but I'll ask anyway. What material did you use to make the rock and how did you cure it? Normally, people experience pH swings with DIY rock.. I haven't heard of salinity effects before.

So how did you make the 90 gallons of additional saltwater? How long did you have it mixed before adding it to the new tank? I assume you must have checked it's salinity at some point to determine when to stop adding salt. Did you use any of the old tank water to fill the 180 gallon tank? Acclimated the fish, etc?

 

[Poseidon]

What does your Alk test at?

 

[mhowe9]

I don't think the rock would cause the salinity to increase so dramatically, but I'll ask anyway. What material did you use to make the rock and how did you cure it? Normally, people experience pH swings with DIY rock.. I haven't heard of salinity effects before.

So how did you make the 90 gallons of additional saltwater? How long did you have it mixed before adding it to the new tank? I assume you must have checked it's salinity at some point to determine when to stop adding salt. Did you use any of the old tank water to fill the 180 gallon tank? Acclimated the fish, etc?

I used portland cement and rock salt to make the rock. (I used approximately 1 part cement to 4 parts salt). The rock was cured it in a fresh water until the PH was about 8.4. The same as my 90 gal.

I actually made a whole new batch of water for the 180 gal. I did this since I didn't use RODI in the 90 gal. Just tap water treated with NovAqua. I figured that I would start with the correct water.

The water was for 2.5 days before the move. I did mix it in the tank since my RODI only makes 24 gal/day. I test as I was making it (I left it a little lower since I figured that it wasn't completely mixed). I also tested each day to make sure it was still ok. However, I didn't test the morning of the move.

The one think that I didn't do and though that I should of was acclimate the fish better. I do normally drip acclimate them when purchased but in this case I didn't. Everyone was fine as of yesterday, but this was probably a mistake.

The fish seem to be doing a little better but I will keep a close eye on them.

Thank you for replying.

 

[mhowe9]

What does your Alk test at?

Unfortunately I don't have one. It is on the to be purchased list. However, one other thing happened that I just thought about. I had a PC actinic light bulb break and fall into my tank ( which I thought was odd). Would that has caused an alk problem?

 

[Poseidon]

My money is on really high Alkalinity. That can kill fish and corals, and not show up on pH tests.

 

[mhowe9]

Thanks everyone for the help!!!!


I am going to take some tank water with me to work and see if I can get it tested at lunch. BTW what is the best thing that I can do for high alk?

The fish seem to be doing a little better. The sixline I don't think is going to make it, though.

 

[SaraB]

Getting your water tested is a great idea!

I accidently raised my salinity to 1.030 over the past few days by not adapting my top-off for the drier air in the house and my fish are virtually unaffected by it. Or I'm just darn lucky ;-)

 

[oceanparadise1]

having 1.027 should not be a problem i run all three of my tanks at 1.026

 

[aquarius77]

I came home from a weeks vacation once and the tank sitter never topped off my tank. I was up around .031 and even my sps came out ok, fish should be fine with .027. What device are you using to test salinity with?

 

[cparka23]

I would agree that 1.027 is not normally an issue, but having it change dramatically in a short period of time is reason for concern. Can't really say whether this case stems from the acclimation or from a quick increase in salinity (or both), but either situation can show your described effect on fish.

Regarding your salinity, here's what I think most likely happened. You mentioned letting the saltwater sit for 2.5 days after you filled the tank, if I read that correctly. So you were filling the tank with some RODI water and adding salt, then waiting a few hours and doing it again. The next morning, you measured salinity and did the same thing again. You kept doing this until it was full of water, but you also stopped adding salt when the salinity was measuring a little on the low side.

The problem with this is that the salt is a mixture of different elements, and, by nature, some elements dissolve in water more quickly than others. What probably happened is the most soluble components of the salt dissolved quickly, but the rest was still in the process whenever you measured it. You later added more water and more salt, but only the quickly dissolving elements were actually being dissolved. As you repeat this process, the less soluble elements don't have a chance to dissolve and will simply accumulate. So the last time you checked for salinity, things appeared to be in order, but the reading didn't actually account for the slow-to-dissolve elements of the salt mixture. At this point, there was probably quite a bit. A higher salt content of the water can further slow the solvation of the slowly dissolving elements. At reefing concentrations, it won't prevent them from dissolving.. but it will make it take longer.

In biochemistry, a similar principle is applied (in reverse) in ion-exchange columns to free charged proteins in a process called 'salting-out.'

Sorry for the long post, everyone. :)

 

[AlexStinson]

how long was this curing for the rock? Maybe the rock salt is still dissolving?
I just think DIY rock is a bad idea... but I'm a rock nerd.

 

[mhowe9]

Here is the latest update.

The sixline wrasse passed away last night. Everything else is still doing ok but not great from what I can tell since the lights are not on right now.

I actually mixed the water once had the tank to a reasonably full level. and then mixed it in one big batch.

The one odd thing is the the leather coral seems unaffected.

The rock had been curing for about 5 weeks. I will probably take it out tonight when I get home depending on what the test says.

Thank you all for your help

 

[mhowe9]

I went at lunch and got my water tested.

Here are the tests that we performed and the results

Ammonia 0.25
Nitrate - 5.0
Nitrite - 0
pH - 8.92
Salinity - 1.026 (with refractometer) My hydrometer had 1.022.

Since these results were fairly different from my test kit. I bought new test kits. I also bought test kits for alk, copper, and phosphate. I also bought a refractometer. I will do the remaining tests today. I might do a water change depending on how the other results turn out.

Thank you to everyone that has responded

 

[mhowe9]

remaining test results

Copper: 0
Phosphate: 0
Alk: 3.5 mEg/L or 175 ppm.

I am going to conclude at this point the ammonia and nitrate levels from the LFS test that the tank is having a cycle. I think that I will keep testing daily over the next week. I will also do a small water changes to slowly take the salinity back down to 1.022. I will take tonight off from that.

 

[mhowe9]

I finally decided to take out the DIY rock. I retested my salinity with the refractometer and it was almost 1.030 up from 1.026 this morning. The only thing that would be causing such a swing is the rock.

 

[mhowe9]

I tested all my parameters again today and my Ammonia was at 0.5 PPM and my pH was at 8.8. The salinity has stabilized now at 1.026, which is were I will keep it. Also my alk test went was at 125 down from 175 yesterday.

The good news is that the fish are acting a lot more like normal today

Here is what I think happened:

1) The DIY rocks is causing my pH to increase and leaching salt into the tank. I have not seen any salinity increases since I removed the rock.

2) I have a mini cycle happening, which is somewhat expected. I hoped to avoid this by transferring all of my live rock and sand.


As long as the fish are doing ok I am going to leave it alone for the next couple of weeks or at least until any evidence of a cycle has disappeared. After that, I will do a pretty decent size water change and start working on lowering my pH a bit.

Thank you to all who have responded