Disease ID in QT

[JB173]

Hi all, long time lurker and first time post here...

I am currently QT'ing a batch of 4 fish in a 20g AIO: a small flame angel, a small biota yellow tang, and a pair of clownfish.

My protocol went as follows:

Day 0 - brought fish home, 2 part safety stop bath according to directions, then into QT tank
Day 1 - confirmed fish are eating, no visible signs of disease or injury
Day 2 - started ramping copper power up to therapeutic levels
Day 5 - copper power at 2.50 checked with hanna checker
Day 13 - found signs of a disease or infection on the 2 clownfish


During the Day 5-13 time frame, copper was checked daily and never dipped below 2.47, ammonia was never detected, nothing new introduced to the QT tank, and fish were eating and acting normally throughout. Today is Day 14 and I am wondering if I need to take the 4 fish out of copper and start a different medication process. They were all fed frozen spirulina mysis/brine soaked in selcon as well as TDO pellets. There is plenty of aeration in the tank and there are no visible signs of disease on either the yellow tang or flame angel.

Meds I have on hand: copper power, ruby reef rally pro, safety stop, general cure, metroplex, kanaplex, H2O2.

Attached are images and a video... thanks for the help in advance!

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi all, long time lurker and first time post here...

I am currently QT'ing a batch of 4 fish in a 20g AIO: a small flame angel, a small biota yellow tang, and a pair of clownfish.

My protocol went as follows:

Day 0 - brought fish home, 2 part safety stop bath according to directions, then into QT tank
Day 1 - confirmed fish are eating, no visible signs of disease or injury
Day 2 - started ramping copper power up to therapeutic levels
Day 5 - copper power at 2.50 checked with hanna checker
Day 13 - found signs of a disease or infection on the 2 clownfish


During the Day 5-13 time frame, copper was checked daily and never dipped below 2.47, ammonia was never detected, nothing new introduced to the QT tank, and fish were eating and acting normally throughout. Today is Day 14 and I am wondering if I need to take the 4 fish out of copper and start a different medication process. They were all fed frozen spirulina mysis/brine soaked in selcon as well as TDO pellets. There is plenty of aeration in the tank and there are no visible signs of disease on either the yellow tang or flame angel.

Meds I have on hand: copper power, ruby reef rally pro, safety stop, general cure, metroplex, kanaplex, H2O2.

Attached are images and a video... thanks for the help in advance!

Looks to be secondary bacterial lesions and may be associated with brooklynella. Other symptoms will be lethargic behavior, refusing to eat and heavy breathing from the mucus.
Start with a prolonged 60 minute bath of ruby rally pro then at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the treatment, the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
Temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective but now harder to find) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Hi all, long time lurker and first time post here...

I am currently QT'ing a batch of 4 fish in a 20g AIO: a small flame angel, a small biota yellow tang, and a pair of clownfish.

My protocol went as follows:

Day 0 - brought fish home, 2 part safety stop bath according to directions, then into QT tank
Day 1 - confirmed fish are eating, no visible signs of disease or injury
Day 2 - started ramping copper power up to therapeutic levels
Day 5 - copper power at 2.50 checked with hanna checker
Day 13 - found signs of a disease or infection on the 2 clownfish


During the Day 5-13 time frame, copper was checked daily and never dipped below 2.47, ammonia was never detected, nothing new introduced to the QT tank, and fish were eating and acting normally throughout. Today is Day 14 and I am wondering if I need to take the 4 fish out of copper and start a different medication process. They were all fed frozen spirulina mysis/brine soaked in selcon as well as TDO pellets. There is plenty of aeration in the tank and there are no visible signs of disease on either the yellow tang or flame angel.

Meds I have on hand: copper power, ruby reef rally pro, safety stop, general cure, metroplex, kanaplex, H2O2.

Attached are images and a video... thanks for the help in advance!

I agree, it does look like Brooklynella. You might try the safety stop again, as it contains formalin which is effective against Brook. However, it is evident that the safety stop didn't keep it from getting into your tank.
The other option would be to dose Ruby Reef Rally Pro.

I've never mixed Rally Pro and copper, but if you stop the copper, you leave the fish exposed to other protozoans....

 

[JB173]

Thanks for the help yall, really appreciate it!

Today copper is still 2.52, all 4 fish eating and behaving fine, but no noticeable improvement on the appearance of the clowns. Since I only have the resources to run 1 QT tank at a time, I'll give Rally Pro a shot.

 

[JB173]

Updating here...

I'm on Day 20 of QT. I kept my copper at 2.5 and started dosing Rally Pro every day as per instructions. The clowns look exactly the same as the original picture and now the yellow tang seems to flash here and there. All 4 fish eat and act normally otherwise. I managed to pick up some 37% formalin and a second tank to be used as a sterile QT so I think that will be my next plan of action. What is the advised plan of action with a formalin bath? 1ml/gal for 30 mins? and should I put them back into 2.5 copper?

Thanks again!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Updating here...

I'm on Day 20 of QT. I kept my copper at 2.5 and started dosing Rally Pro every day as per instructions. The clowns look exactly the same as the original picture and now the yellow tang seems to flash here and there. All 4 fish eat and act normally otherwise. I managed to pick up some 37% formalin and a second tank to be used as a sterile QT so I think that will be my next plan of action. What is the advised plan of action with a formalin bath? 1ml/gal for 30 mins? and should I put them back into 2.5 copper?

Thanks again!

I don't think that this is brooklynella based on the time frame - the clowns would have worsened a lot by now.

Do NOT dip the fish in formalin at that dose! This makes me crazy when I see that - the dose is way too high. It works out to be 250 ppm. I see it on the internet, but that is the dose for coldwater fish. Tropical marine fish need to be dosed at 150 to 167 ppm for 45 minutes to an hour. What happened was some "expert" started using this dose because it made for a nice round number (1ml to 1 gallon) and they thought that the water temperature didn't matter all that much in the dose. 250 ppm won't kill all species, but it will kill some and will damage others. Also, formalin dips won't cure fish, just buy you some time.

Can you post a fresh video so I can compare to the old one?

 

[JB173]

Ahhhh sorry didn't realize I was basing my formalin instructions off poor advice! So is it 0.6ml/gal?

Attached is a photo and vid clip from this morning.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Ahhhh sorry didn't realize I was basing my formalin instructions off poor advice! So is it 0.6ml/gal?

Attached is a photo and vid clip from this morning.

Yes - the proper dose is 0.6 ml/gal of formalin, with good aeration for 45 minutes.

I’m thinking that this is brooklynelka that is sort of being held in check by the copper, but not being cured.

I’ve stopped using formalin due to human health concerns - but since you already have, use it, but be really careful. It de-gasses into the air. I know some people who dip their fish outdoors. I don’t ask how they dispose of the dip water.

 

[JB173]

Yes - the proper dose is 0.6 ml/gal of formalin, with good aeration for 45 minutes.

I’m thinking that this is brooklynelka that is sort of being held in check by the copper, but not being cured.

Gotcha thanks for the second analysis of this outbreak!

So I will give them a 45min bath in formalin at 0.6 ml/gal with a big ol airstone going. I plan on doing it outdoors as far as possible from my home with a respirator and industrial gloves on, and I have a local waste disposal center that will take tainted water from me which I've used when disposing old water with antibiotics in it.

 

[sgdnycct]

I’m curious that you started medicating days before you saw the symptoms. How is your water quality and any signs of aggression? If the environment isn’t good the fish will be stressed and have a weak immune system. Something to consider.

 

[JB173]

I’m curious that you started medicating days before you saw the symptoms. How is your water quality and any signs of aggression? If the environment isn’t good the fish will be stressed and have a weak immune system. Something to consider.

Well my personal QT process always includes safety stop as soon as I receive the fish and copper regardless if I see symptoms or not.

Yes - the proper dose is 0.6 ml/gal of formalin, with good aeration for 45 minutes.

Formalin bath was administered and already I see some improvements, see attached (sorry they were zooming all around cuz I was about to feed)

 

[sgdnycct]

I’m curious that you started medicating days before you saw the symptoms. How is your water quality and any signs of aggression? If the environment isn’t good the fish will be stressed and have a weak immune system. Something to consider.

Well my personal QT process always includes safety stop as soon as I receive the fish and copper regardless if I see symptoms or not.

Yes - the proper dose is 0.6 ml/gal of formalin, with good aeration for 45 minutes.

Formalin bath was administered and already I see some improvements, see attached (sorry they were zooming all around cuz I was about to feed)

Wow big improvement!! Keep us updated.

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Well my personal QT process always includes safety stop as soon as I receive the fish and copper regardless if I see symptoms or not.



Formalin bath was administered and already I see some improvements, see attached (sorry they were zooming all around cuz I was about to feed)

I would avoid using safety stop (or any formalin product as a dip) on freshly shipped fish (in bags longer than 12 hours). Formalin is stressful, and scavenges oxygen, and that is very rough on shipped fish, right at a time then they are already stressed. About 30 years ago, I had developed a "triage" for new fish that included a formalin treatment prior to beginning a full quarantine. Over many hundreds of fish in dozens of shipments, I saw a distinct spike in initial mortality (within 3 days of arrival) so I stopped doing that and the mortality went back to normal levels.

In addition, with formalin being so toxic to people, I've decided to not recommend its use in homes.

 

[sgdnycct]

How are they doing?

 

[JB173]

How are they doing?

apologies I have been travelling for the past few days, but my wife has been monitoring them all and everyone is doing fine. Continuing on with my QT process!