Dispar Anthias falling apart

[Albertoinbox]

Unfortunatley I must reactivate this thread...

Seems like that Dispar Anthias from Live Aquaria was infected with a disease and now its in my tank, several fish have died since then with the same symptoms.

Mostly Anthias. 2 Evansi, 2 Fathead Sunburst and now my resplendent has begun to show the same signs and isnt swimming, should last only a couple of days max.

I tried to save them with NeoPlex but by the time I saw symptoms it was too late.

So, I gotta fix this permanently immediately, before all my fish die.

I would like to receive advice on how to proceed. From what I read it seems like Uronema and I understand I might have to start over again.

I have:
Reefer 350 with 90 gallons
Sand
Live Rock
Corals
20 gallon quarantine tank
UV filter
GFO/Carbon reactor
Protein Skimmer
Refugium with Chaeto
Apex
Trident
DOS
Radions G5

I attached images of the last fathead that died.

Thank you very much.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry - that fathead is showing a classic Uronema lesion. I was on the fence with the dispar, but in retrospect, I think it probably had Uronema in addition to the aggression issues.

There just isn't a treatment you can use in your DT for Uronema - chloroquine, if you can even find any, would wipe out most of your corals, and it is rough on live rock.

In terms of damage control - what fish are still alive in the tank? Any symptoms? Some fish species are highly resistant to Uronema, you may not lose everything...

Jay

 

[Albertoinbox]

Sorry - that fathead is showing a classic Uronema lesion. I was on the fence with the dispar, but in retrospect, I think it probably had Uronema in addition to the aggression issues.

There just isn't a treatment you can use in your DT for Uronema - chloroquine, if you can even find any, would wipe out most of your corals, and it is rough on live rock.

In terms of damage control - what fish are still alive in the tank? Any symptoms? Some fish species are highly resistant to Uronema, you may not lose everything...

Jay

Thanks Jay,

I got:

Pair of clowns
Melanurus wrasse
Carpenters Flasher wrasse
Possum wrasse
Pair of black green chromis small
Black bar chromis
Purple firefish
Bicolor blenny
Pair of pajama cardinals small
Dispar anthias
Resplendent anthias

The resplendent anthias is developing a wound on the side just like everyone else that died, I guess he has a couple of days left.

 

[Albertoinbox]

I just read your article...

Uronema / Red Band Disease - Hemdal​

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry, this is a bad situation. Of the list you posted, I've seen, or suspected Uronema in the following ones:

Melanurus wrasse
Carpenters Flasher wrasse
Pair of black green chromis small
Black bar chromis
Dispar anthias
Resplendent anthias

The only thing that isn't matching up for me is the way this is spreading in your tank. I've only seen that once before and it was with a bunch of newly imported fish that had been confiscated by USFWS and sent to me for safe keeping...we lost all the wrasses and parrotfish in that group.

Obviously, Uronema looks like bacteria, and in fact, you can get lesions that contain both bacteria and Uronema. However, external bacterial infections are almost never primary infections, they arise from some break in the fish's skin (like the first dispar). Therefore, when you see lesions start up on fish that don't already have damaged skin, you have to consider Uronema.

In fish-only tank, back when it was available, chloroquine at 15 ppm was commonly used as a treatment. It wouldn't cure already infected fish (because the Uronema is inside the fish) but it was thought to limit spreading. I just don't have a source for chloroquine right now.

Jay

 

[Albertoinbox]

Thanks Jay, bad situation is right, what a nightmare...

And I though LiveAquaria quarantined and visually checked them before shipping. That Dispar arrived with clear visible marks.

Anyway, I would like to prevent my fish from certain death and make my water healthy again.

So, if there's no treatment at the moment being that chloroquine was taken of the market, what course of action would you suggest? Should I put the healthy fish in the quarantine tank and tear my DT down, sterilize it and start over?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

You wouldn't be able to treat the DT with chloroquine in any event - it would kill most of your inverts.

You could move any affected fish to the QT, giving them a 5 minute FW dip as you move them over, then treat with copper (a poor second choice for Uronema, but better than doing nothing).

Then, just let your DT chill for 45 days or so beyond the last symptom you saw in the tank. Uronema is a ubiquitous protozoan, it can be isolated from almost every aquarium if you look hard enough. It is a facultative, not an obligate, fish parasite. I would avoid green chromis, anthias and wrasses then for a period of time, and if/when you do start getting those Uronema-sensitive species again, quarantine them for 30 to 45 days (as I said, Uronema usually hits newly acquired fish).

Jay

 

[Albertoinbox]

Following up with bad news.

The uronema killed my resplendent anthias in less than 48 hours, from no symptoms or visual indications to dead. The images in the tank are from last night, the ones where he is dead was this morning.

I tried to save him but it was too late. This thing kills FAST.

RIP

 

[Albertoinbox]

You wouldn't be able to treat the DT with chloroquine in any event - it would kill most of your inverts.

You could move any affected fish to the QT, giving them a 5 minute FW dip as you move them over, then treat with copper (a poor second choice for Uronema, but better than doing nothing).

Then, just let your DT chill for 45 days or so beyond the last symptom you saw in the tank. Uronema is a ubiquitous protozoan, it can be isolated from almost every aquarium if you look hard enough. It is a facultative, not an obligate, fish parasite. I would avoid green chromis, anthias and wrasses then for a period of time, and if/when you do start getting those Uronema-sensitive species again, quarantine them for 30 to 45 days (as I said, Uronema usually hits newly acquired fish).

Jay

So Jay, I'm done with flushing fish down the toilet...

This thing is bad and I dont think it will stop until it kills all the fish it can. It also kills them so fast that by the time I see any symptoms its already too late. Therefore, I must be pro-active. Would you agree?

I'm thinking about getting ALL my fish out of the DT, dipping them 5 min in FW then treat them with copper in the QT. Then just leave them there for 45 days before re-introducing them in the DT. How does that sound?

Besides, is there a way of knowing if the level of uronema in the DT is safe before I re-introduce them? (Dropping an anthias in as bait is not an option!)

 

[Hydrahawk]

I think LA uses Quality Marine as their supplier. Make sure to raise copper slowly, over 3-5 days.

 

[Miami Reef]

Any updates?

 

[Albertoinbox]

I did a 100% water change + 20% wash twice. Huge operation. Cleaned everything besides the filters to keep the bacteria.

Overflow box was filthy, might have been the cause.

So far added a one spot foxface and a coral beauty, both doing fine. My dispar is also fine.

Besides this just trying not to overfeed fish and corals and keeping things in check with water changes. I got a Skimmer, GFO/Carbon reactor, Bio-pellets reactor, UV filter, CO2 scrubber and a refugium with macro algae and mangroves.

Like Jay said all tanks have it and they attack newly acquired fish so I plan to add more anthias but will quarantine for 30-45 days in copper before adding to the DT.

 

[Miami Reef]

Can I make a suggestion? Purchase the anthias from biota, or get them prequarantined.

Unfortunately, copper does not kill uronema. I purchased 5 lyretail anthias yesterday and they started developing uronema after the 1st day. I gave them a slightly overdosed formalin bath AND I overdosed metronidazole.

I microscoped them the next day and they STILL had uronema - although the movement was much slower than typical.

Just giving you a fair warning. I personally will never purchase them again because like you said, all tanks have uronema (or at least 90% of them).

Nobody knows how to effectively treat uronema. I think the best tip is getting a uronema-prone fish BEFORE they show any symptoms and immediately bath in formalin and/or metro. Once they already show signs of uronema it’s too late.

^ all this is my opinion based on my experience with anthias and online forum searching. Anthias are one of my favorite fish, and it’s sad that I won’t be able to keep any.

Good luck with whatever path you choose!