DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

OK, I just looked it up and it is obviously not correct. I think what they mean is that it can distinguish 0.125 ppm from 0 ppm using their low range kit. There's no possible way, using the range they quote in the picture above of 64 ppm, that a human can distinguish 63.00 ppm from 63.20 ppm using a color card whose closest colors are 32 and 64 ppm.

 

[exnisstech]

I apologize if I should be able to gather this info reading through the posts but I have trouble understanding things clearly at times. Call it ammonium dosing for dummies :face-with-hand-over-mouth:

As far as NO3 levels, is the goal to dose enough ammonium to start raising NO3 to an acceptable level? I think it is but the fact that it lowers NO3 has me confused. My system runs very low N and P last test NO3 0.6 and PO4 0.03 tested with Hanna HR nitrate and ULR phosphate. I've been dosing N and P as needed to stay above 0. I'm set up to dose ammonium bicarb and actually started but when I saw NO3 decreasing I panicked and stopped dosing.
I guess my actual questions are:
If I start dosing ammonium should I continue dosing NO3 (I use diy sodium nitrate) to keep NO3 detectable?
Should I not worry about NO3 dropping to 0 while dosing ammonium and just keep increasing the ammonium dose until I see NO3 increasing.
Should I dose both NO3 and ammonium to get NO3 at an acceptable level then start decreasing the amount of NO3 and while increasing the ammonium to try and maintain that level?
I would be comfortable with levels of NO3 5.0 and PO4 0.05 but am more concerned with how my coral look vs actual numbers.

Tank info 65g total volume. I'm currently dosing 35ml AFR daily. Not sure if it matters but I do very minimal WCs of 2g every week or two so I can vacuumed detritus that gathers in a corner. I run a roller that I shut down several nights a week and let overflow. No skimmer. I have chaeto that is healthy but I rarely harvest it since I only use it as a place for little critters to live not to help with nutrients.
Corals are mostly acro frags with a few mini colonies and has been running for 2 years.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I apologize if I should be able to gather this info reading through the posts but I have trouble understanding things clearly at times. Call it ammonium dosing for dummies :face-with-hand-over-mouth:

As far as NO3 levels, is the goal to dose enough ammonium to start raising NO3 to an acceptable level? I think it is but the fact that it lowers NO3 has me confused. My system runs very low N and P last test NO3 0.6 and PO4 0.03 tested with Hanna HR nitrate and ULR phosphate. I've been dosing N and P as needed to stay above 0. I'm set up to dose ammonium bicarb and actually started but when I saw NO3 decreasing I panicked and stopped dosing.
I guess my actual questions are:
If I start dosing ammonium should I continue dosing NO3 (I use diy sodium nitrate) to keep NO3 detectable?
Should I not worry about NO3 dropping to 0 while dosing ammonium and just keep increasing the ammonium dose until I see NO3 increasing.
Should I dose both NO3 and ammonium to get NO3 at an acceptable level then start decreasing the amount of NO3 and while increasing the ammonium to try and maintain that level?
I would be comfortable with levels of NO3 5.0 and PO4 0.05 but am more concerned with how my coral look vs actual numbers.

Tank info 65g total volume. I'm currently dosing 35ml AFR daily. Not sure if it matters but I do very minimal WCs of 2g every week or two so I can vacuumed detritus that gathers in a corner. I run a roller that I shut down several nights a week and let overflow. No skimmer. I have chaeto that is healthy but I rarely harvest it since I only use it as a place for little critters to live not to help with nutrients.
Corals are mostly acro frags with a few mini colonies and has been running for 2 years.

The overall goal is to provide ammonia for corals. If you keep adding more and more ammonia until nitrate reaches a level where you do not want it higher, then that's all you can do.

If nitrate falls or stays the same, you may be providing enough ammonia, or may not be. Observation of the tank may also help guide a good dose.

My personal opinion is that if nitrate is below 5 ppm, I'd keep upping the dose until nitrate hit 5 ppm, or something else made me want to stop.

 

[exnisstech]

My personal opinion is that if nitrate is below 5 ppm, I'd keep upping the dose until nitrate hit 5 ppm, or something else made me want to stop.

Thank Randy appreciate you as always.
Just to clarify do you mean keep increasing the ammonium until NO3 reaches 5 ppm? If so how long would you be comfortable seeing 0 ppm before it begins to increase? O makes me a bit nervous but only because of what I've read concerning dinos which I've been fortunate enough to avoid.

 

[Shirak]

Thank Randy appreciate you as always.
Just to clarify do you mean keep increasing the ammonium until NO3 reaches 5 ppm? If so how long would you be comfortable seeing 0 ppm before it begins to increase? O makes me a bit nervous but only because of what I've read concerning dinos which I've been fortunate enough to avoid.

I continued to dose nitrates while ramping up ammonia dosing. Currently at 16ml/day into my 45gal system. Nitrates around 25ppm. I have stopped dosing nitrates and am monitoring. I tend to feed a lot so that could be partly it with Amino dosing too. Also depends how often I am tackling the few remaining pockets of hair algae.

I think I would continue to dose nitrates until you are comfortable with ammonia holding it where you want it.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Thank Randy appreciate you as always.
Just to clarify do you mean keep increasing the ammonium until NO3 reaches 5 ppm? If so how long would you be comfortable seeing 0 ppm before it begins to increase? O makes me a bit nervous but only because of what I've read concerning dinos which I've been fortunate enough to avoid.

You can boost nitrate to 5-10 ppm in a single nitrate dose, if you are concerned about the time it might take to get there dosing ammonia, then keep ramping up the ammonia to stabilize the nitrate. Redose the nitrate if needed. Or feed more in the meantime.

 

[exnisstech]

You can boost nitrate to 5-10 ppm in a single nitrate dose, if you are concerned about the time it might take to get there dosing ammonia, then keep ramping up the ammonia to stabilize the nitrate. Redose the nitrate if needed. Or feed more in the meantime.

Thanks that sounds like a good plan. I'll report back later.

 

[Big E]

Is that really the accuracy claim, or the low detection limit? I don’t believe that any home kit could distinguish 41.00 ppm from 41.20 ppm.

I have used the kit and it does match the chart colors with the different levels, but I have no way of knowing if that's a claim or factual............which is the same for any other kit on the market.

I bought the Red Sea kit because I was getting 0 on the Salifert kit and the Red Sea Pro read levels below that. The color wheel is broken down in increments of .25 below 1.0.

It's a low range kit is all I know. It was not accurate for me when I tried to use for high ranges by dilution.

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I'm more interested in what people are using to measure the N03 levels

 

[Big E]

The overall goal is to provide ammonia for corals. If you keep adding more and more ammonia until nitrate reaches a level where you do not want it higher, then that's all you can do.

If nitrate falls or stays the same, you may be providing enough ammonia, or may not be. Observation of the tank may also help guide a good dose.

My personal opinion is that if nitrate is below 5 ppm, I'd keep upping the dose until nitrate hit 5 ppm, or something else made me want to stop.

I agree and what I was mainly trying to get at............at least 5.0 seems like a reasonable level to account for test kit errors, accuracy, the actual tester variable, ect.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I have used the kit and it does match the chart colors with the different levels, but I have no way of knowing if that's a claim or factual............which is the same for any other kit on the market.

I bought the Red Sea kit because I was getting 0 on the Salifert kit and the Red Sea Pro read levels below that. The color wheel is broken down in increments of .25 below 1.0.

It's a low range kit is all I know. It was not accurate for me when I tried to use for high ranges by dilution.

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I'm more interested in what people are using to measure the N03 levels

I’m planning to use the Hanna, but do not have it yet.

 

[djkms]

Sorry if this has been discussed in the thread but I am trying to figure out the best way to dose this to feed my corals. Being that the tank is a battleground and both coral and bacteria would be competing for ammonia, is it safe to assume bacteria will be more efficient at this then corals?

If the above is true wouldn't it make morse sense to do a larger single dose or two then multiple single doses throughout the day so its available longer in the water column?

For me and the concentration I made, 125ml per day is roughly .13ppm ammonia (.46ppm NO3) spread out over 24 hours. My DOS is dosing it 89 times at 1.4ml. It just seams like such a small amount that the bacteria will take care of it before the corals even have a chance or am I wrong?

 

[xravin]

Finally registered some nitrates (Hanna HR) for the first time since Christmas! It's only 0.4ppm, but it's a start.

 

[DenverSaltyFarm]

Finally registered some nitrates (Hanna HR) for the first time since Christmas! It's only 0.4ppm, but it's a start.

nice, how much are you dosing per day and how many gallons is your tank?

 

[xravin]

nice, how much are you dosing per day and how many gallons is your tank?

35ml was last dose. It's a 120g tank.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Finally registered some nitrates (Hanna HR) for the first time since Christmas! It's only 0.4ppm, but it's a start.

Any visible changes in the tank?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Sorry if this has been discussed in the thread but I am trying to figure out the best way to dose this to feed my corals. Being that the tank is a battleground and both coral and bacteria would be competing for ammonia, is it safe to assume bacteria will be more efficient at this then corals?

If the above is true wouldn't it make morse sense to do a larger single dose or two then multiple single doses throughout the day so its available longer in the water column?

For me and the concentration I made, 125ml per day is roughly .13ppm ammonia (.46ppm NO3) spread out over 24 hours. My DOS is dosing it 89 times at 1.4ml. It just seams like such a small amount that the bacteria will take care of it before the corals even have a chance or am I wrong?

I have no data on what is more efficient or even how to define that. Bacteria will get some. Corals, algae, anemones, macroalgae, etc. will all also get some.

What fraction you dose that gets taken up by any particular organisms will depend on many factors, such as how many such creatures are present, and how large, and where they are in the system in relation to where you dose it.

As to spread out vs all at once, there may well be differences, but I would not want to assume we know the answer without any data to support it.

 

[xravin]

Any visible changes in the tank?

Not yet, but it’s only been a couple days since I started dosing. No ill effects though, so that’s good. I’ll mainly be happy if I can keep the nitrates up.

 

[xravin]

40ml dose today, nitrates at 1.2ppm. The light was almost off, but I could have sworn a patch of slime on my sand had shrunk, but I’ll have to confirm tomorrow.

 

[Zuluuz]

Could you add a weeks worth to an ATO container after mixing?

 

[tbrown]

Could you add a weeks worth to an ATO container after mixing?

It would potentially turn to nitrates and have the potential for algae growth I would assume.