DIY Ammonia dosing for low nitrate systems

[rishma]

Less than a few ppm.

Doesn't mean a tank couldn't benefit at higher levels, but below 2 ppm, I think it very likely they will.

Interesting. Why 2 ppm? I shoot for more than 5 ppm just because it keeps me away from zero but I don’t think I’ve noticed a real difference until I get near zero.

 

[rishma]

I used to have diaphragm pumps called Reef Fillers (no longer sold), that could be mechanically dialed back to small amounts per day. I used them for ATO and AWC. I was thinking for the future of using peristaltic pumps that could be electronically set to an amount close to daily limit (such as a Versa). Not perfect, but better than a fast setting for short time periods.

I remember reef filler. That was my ATO back in the day.

I have not used a versa. Sounds like it has safer programming than my current dosing pumps.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Interesting. Why 2 ppm? I shoot for more than 5 ppm just because it keeps me away from zero but I don’t think I’ve noticed a real difference until I get near zero.

Not any strong reason, I just think that a reliably detectable few ppm of nitrate is enough nitrate for corals to use nitrate if needed. I'm not sure where the low cutoff for uptake is.

 

[buruskeee]

Not any strong reason, I just think that a reliably detectable few ppm of nitrate is enough nitrate for corals to use nitrate if needed. I'm not sure where the low cutoff for uptake is.

In theory (and maybe verified in research, not sure), the corals would be consuming the ammonia during the nitrification process, and before it’s converted to NO3? So having anything detectable would indicate there’s is a surplus, meaning corals are fed adequately?

 

[WvAquatics]

Got a small bottle of ammonia carbonate. Time to start my cycle when I receive my correct gate valves

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

In theory (and maybe verified in research, not sure), the corals would be consuming the ammonia during the nitrification process, and before it’s converted to NO3? So having anything detectable would indicate there’s is a surplus, meaning corals are fed adequately?

Yes, that's the rationale for dosing enough that nitrate becomes detectable. But "anything" detectable can just mean that bacteria are getting some first to make nitrate, and then the question remains, if there is only nitrate, how much does a coral need to satisfy all its needs.

 

[Dibi]

Hi, I already ask this but I lost the reply. So sorry, however I change the size the reef, so, now is 380 liter. 0 nitrates. I'll be using Amonium Bicarbonate, is it the same of "sal amoniaco"?

Can I add 0.2ppm per day? How many doses? Split in 24? Thanks

 

[Dibi]

Another question, using carbon source together with amonia dosing improve results?

 

[Red_Beard]

Another question, using carbon source together with amonia dosing improve results?

Is that like one of the 'you gotta get up to get down' kinda things? Those are 2 different things, one dosing N because there isn't enough, the other dosing a food source for things that consume N because there is a surplus. That is kind of like a self perpetuating cycle, dose N to bring it up, N too high, dose carbon to bring it down.

 

[Trillaman954]

Less than a few ppm.

Doesn't mean a tank couldn't benefit at higher levels, but below 2 ppm, I think it very likely they will.

So what would you cinder

 

[BriDroid]

Hi, I already ask this but I lost the reply. So sorry, however I change the size the reef, so, now is 380 liter. 0 nitrates. I'll be using Amonium Bicarbonate, is it the same of "sal amoniaco"?

Can I add 0.2ppm per day? How many doses? Split in 24? Thanks

I made a stock solution with ammonium bicarbonate that gives me 0.2ppm NH3 if I dose 1ml into my 8 gallons of water. I put it into the middle chamber once a day and I'm keeping my NO3 around 4-6ish ppm with that dose. Nothing in the tank seems negatively affected by the 0.2ppm NH3 dose. Everyone acts normal, I don't witness any negative affects from any of the life in there.

 

[rishma]

Another question, using carbon source together with amonia dosing improve results?

Is that like one of the 'you gotta get up to get down' kinda things? Those are 2 different things, one dosing N because there isn't enough, the other dosing a food source for things that consume N because there is a surplus. That is kind of like a self perpetuating cycle, dose N to bring it up, N too high, dose carbon to bring it down.

Yes, two completely different but related things. I carbon dose, which over time tends to drive down nitrate, but that’s not the main reason I carbon dose. I actually do it primarily for phosphate control. I dose an N source to keep nitrate above zero. Ammonia seems to be a great way to do that.

Dosing carbon will not improve effectiveness of dosing ammonia if the effect you are looking for is raising nitrate. In fact, dosing carbon would make ammonia dosing less effective for that.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Hi, I already ask this but I lost the reply. So sorry, however I change the size the reef, so, now is 380 liter. 0 nitrates. I'll be using Amonium Bicarbonate, is it the same of "sal amoniaco"?

Can I add 0.2ppm per day? How many doses? Split in 24? Thanks

0.2 ppm can be added in one or two doses. If you are adding 24 times a day, that's fine too, and you can add much more per day that way.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Another question, using carbon source together with amonia dosing improve results?

Depends on what results you mean.

 

[Dibi]

Depends on what results you mean.

I mean, you dose NH3, corals consume, you remove N with carbon dosing, dose NH3 again, to maybe try to make corals always getting the NH3. But I imagine if you have constant 5ppm nitrate is sufficient. I do not know, just guessing.

dr. sanjay uses carbon source plus dose a lot of amonia, he uses to low N and be able to dose more NH3.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I mean, you dose NH3, corals consume, you remove N with carbon dosing, dose NH3 again, to maybe try to make corals always getting the NH3. But I imagine if you have constant 5ppm nitrate is sufficient. I do not know, just guessing.

dr. sanjay uses carbon source plus dose a lot of amonia, he uses to low N and be able to dose more NH3.

There's nothing wrong with dosing ammonia and also organic carbon, just like dosing nitrate and carbon dosing is OK, but I would not assume that the bacteria consuming the organics are primarily consuming nitrate. They too may be happier absorbing NH3 before corals get it. Perhaps that makes more ammonia available to corals, but it might also be less, and which it does may vary tank to tank depending on factors like where it is dosed, and where bacteria are primarily growing. If I wanted to do this, i'd dose ammonia so it gets to the display first (before any refugia/media) and I'd dose the organic so it hits refugia and media before it gets to the display.

I'd typically only dose both ammonia and organic carbon for one of these two reasons:

1. You want to slowly and steady lower phosphate
or
2. You want to drive bacteria growth as a filter feeder food and do not want N to get too low

 

[buruskeee]

@Randy Holmes-Farley one more question, and I’m sure you’ve answered it somewhat in another article or thread - at what ppm does livestock start to be effected by the ammonium (inverts/fish)? Is anything single digits pretty much still safe?

I know I can just find a dosing pump that runs way slow at max speed, but I want to have an idea of how much room I can play with in concentration in 1L being accidentally dosed in a day.

 

[rishma]

1. You want to slowly and steady lower phosphate

Interesting that you post this. Today I measured phosphate morning and evening. I dosed ammonium bicarbonate mid day. It was 0.09 this morning (perfect). This evening it was 0.04. Lower than I want. I have 4 ppm nitrate so I didn’t think the ammonia dose would contribute to this change, but now I am wondering.

 

[Z Burn's Reefing]

Coming back for a brief check-in. I think I am 3 weeks in on dosing ammonia bicarbonate. My tank has never had detectable nitrates since it first finished cycling 18 months ago. My nitrate is now at 5. The plan is to push it to 10 and then work on a maintenance dose.

No negative observations when dosing whatsoever. I can echo the observation that LPS corals look fluffier/happier for sure. My SPS corals look about the same. I seem to observe greater change in coloration of my SPS when increasing phosphate rather than nitrate. All anecdotal, but I see pretty clearly, deeper SPS coloration when increasing phosphate (if its low/not-detectable). Increasing nitrate has not had a dramatic effect on color of the sticks (yet). I also did not observe an increase in 2 part consumption as some have experienced after dosing ammonia bicarbonate. That being said, it's still pretty early.

Thanks again for the thread, really helpful and I've had a very good experience so far. Will report back in another few weeks any other observations.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

Interesting that you post this. Today I measured phosphate morning and evening. I dosed ammonium bicarbonate mid day. It was 0.09 this morning (perfect). This evening it was 0.04. Lower than I want. I have 4 ppm nitrate so I didn’t think the ammonia dose would contribute to this change, but now I am wondering.

That might just be timing variability. I’d keep watching it.