Diy magnesium using kalkwasser

[Lee belk]

Hi I'm in need of a little help i live in the UK so measuring sizes are different to the us and im no good at at math haha could some one help me get around what magnesium products-chemicals I need and how many grams to use per us gallon of water my tank is 200ltr im new to this i have been reading on the web but can't get my head around it is kalkwasser 1part or 2 part I think I read that kalkwassers diy magnesium mix is different to the other part mix I don't want to get anything wrong and mess things up

 

[Lee belk]

My mag was at 1350 on the 4.1.21 yesterday it was on 1320 I have added salifert dry magnesium to correct it

 

[Cory]

Kalkwasser is calcium hydroxide powder dissolved in water. It supplies calcium and alkalinity when dosing. Almost nothing for magnesium.

If you need to dose magnesium use magnesium chloride and appropriately 1/5 of magnesium sulphate. So 4/5 is mag chloride and 1/5 is mag sulphate. Or just all mag chloride for a few times.

Use this calculator

Reef Chemistry Calculator

 

[Lee belk]

If i was to mix 4/5 mag chloride and 1/5 mag sulphate could I use that every time I needed to dose mag and is there a reason to why I can only dose mag chloride a few times I have just been and bought a tub of mag until I get the hang of it all for the time being

 

[Cory]

If i was to mix 4/5 mag chloride and 1/5 mag sulphate could I use that every time I needed to dose mag and is there a reason to why I can only dose mag chloride a few times I have just been and bought a tub of mag until I get the hang of it all for the time being

Its to balance the sulfate and chloride. Magnesium chloride adds chloride and Magnesium sulphate adds sulphate. If you only dose one kind sulphate or chloride will become off of what natural levels are. For example S is 900ppm. Dosing mag sulphate brings up S by so much but leaves chloride alone. Its to balance it basically.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If i was to mix 4/5 mag chloride and 1/5 mag sulphate could I use that every time I needed to dose mag and is there a reason to why I can only dose mag chloride a few times I have just been and bought a tub of mag until I get the hang of it all for the time being

It likely makes no difference, but the better ratio for someone using limewater (kalkwasser) is 10:1.

Do not mix any magnesium supplement into kalkwasser.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-07/rhf/index.php

 

[Lee belk]

Ok I gathered adding mag to kalk would cause a problem thank you ill read tge link now and try find some decent brand of mag sulphate and cloride

 

[blasterman]

I can see a reason that over a long period of time using magnesium sulfate (Epson salt) can cause issues if you dose a lot of magnesium.

However, I fail to see a reason why magnesium chloride would be a problem requiring a mix of magnesium sulfate. How many of us dose calcium sulfate to 'correct' calcium chloride imbalance?

Randy?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I can see a reason that over a long period of time using magnesium sulfate (Epson salt) can cause issues if you dose a lot of magnesium.

However, I fail to see a reason why magnesium chloride would be a problem requiring a mix of magnesium sulfate. How many of us dose calcium sulfate to 'correct' calcium chloride imbalance?

Randy?

My DIY uses magnesium sulfate to correct the excessive chloride.

Balling part C is mostly magnesium sulfate for the same reason.

Not using an approach like this will lead to high chloride and low sulfate. Is that a concern? I've not seen anyone really test the biological effects and it may not be. Likely more of a concern in high demand, low water change tanks.

 

[Lee belk]

Would these be ok to mix together

 

[arking_mark]

@Randy Holmes-Farley
I think the real question here is if I'm using Kalkwasser for Ca/Alk how do I supplement the other major and minor ions/elements and maintain ionic balance?

Red Sea seems to have a good product for trace ions/elements.

What do I do for magnesium, strontium, and borate? (Which I think the trace products don't cover)

The next logical question is if there is rule of thumb for dosage based on Ca/Alk consumption. (Triton and many other vendors supplement based on Ca/Alk)

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Would these be ok to mix together

Yes.

 

[HuduVudu]

@Randy Holmes-Farley
I think the real question here is if I'm using Kalkwasser for Ca/Alk how do I supplement the other major and minor ions/elements and maintain ionic balance?

Red Sea seems to have a good product for trace ions/elements.

What do I do for magnesium, strontium, and borate? (Which I think the trace products don't cover)

The next logical question is if there is rule of thumb for dosage based on Ca/Alk consumption. (Triton and many other vendors supplement based on Ca/Alk)

For the kitchen sink, you can use TM Balling C. Otherwise you can use Triton or Reef Moonshiners. I don't think either of these list their constiuent ingredients, so you will have to trust that it works.

This isn't an easy question, and it is the cutting edge of the hobby. Be warned you have come to the edge of the earth, there be monsters here.

 

[arking_mark]

@Randy Holmes-Farley
I think the real question here is if I'm using Kalkwasser for Ca/Alk how do I supplement the other major and minor ions/elements and maintain ionic balance?

Red Sea seems to have a good product for trace ions/elements.

What do I do for magnesium, strontium, and borate? (Which I think the trace products don't cover)

The next logical question is if there is rule of thumb for dosage based on Ca/Alk consumption. (Triton and many other vendors supplement based on Ca/Alk)

@Randy Holmes-Farley should I ask this in another thread?

 

[blasterman]

My DIY uses magnesium sulfate to correct the excessive chloride.

Balling part C is mostly magnesium sulfate for the same reason.

Not using an approach like this will lead to high chloride and low sulfate. Is that a concern? I've not seen anyone really test the biological effects and it may not be. Likely more of a concern in high demand, low water change tanks.

I will counter with this. See bottom of thread.

Excess Chloride - Effects on Calcification? - Reef Central Online Community

Excess Chloride - Effects on Calcification? The Reef Chemistry Forum

www.reefcentral.com

I've know a lot of SPS keepers over the past 30 years that go through calcium chloride in 50lb bags, do sporadic water changes and don't have problems.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley
I think the real question here is if I'm using Kalkwasser for Ca/Alk how do I supplement the other major and minor ions/elements and maintain ionic balance?

Red Sea seems to have a good product for trace ions/elements.

What do I do for magnesium, strontium, and borate? (Which I think the trace products don't cover)

The next logical question is if there is rule of thumb for dosage based on Ca/Alk consumption. (Triton and many other vendors supplement based on Ca/Alk)

Unlike dosing calcium chloride and sodium carbonate, calcium hydroxide does not "cause" any imbalance (except for a small long term effect of calcium rising relative to alkalinity).

Thus, it does not need to use, or benefit fromm, products like Balling Part C.

You just need to replace what is consumed by organisms.

Various products do that. My DIY magnesium supplement (#3 below) is designed to use with kalkwasser:

Do-It-Yourself Magnesium Supplements for the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

I used limewater (kalkwasser) for 20 years. Borate never depleted and I never added any, except by 1% daily water changes. IMO, it is not a primary concern for supplementation, and I'm not sure if it has any utility in a reef tank aside from a small pH stabilizing effect.

My Triton Testing Results: By Randy Holmes-Farley - REEFEDITION

Recently, Triton GmbH in Germany has initiated a method of testing many ions at once for a single price. In the US, that service is coordinated by Unique Corals. For $49 they will send you a couple of tubes to collect a tank water sample, and a prepaid mailer to send the sample back to them...

www.reefedition.com

Boron (B; borate). The borate is about normal. I do not add it. It seemingly is not depleted in my aquarium.

I'm also not of the opinion that strontium has utility.

That said, many supplements include these:

K+ ELEMENTS - Tropic Marin®

K+ ELEMENTS contains essential cationic trace elements to support an ideal growth and natural colouration of corals in a reef aquarium.

www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com

Tropic Marin® K+ ELEMENTS contains barium, boron, chromium, cobalt, iron, copper, manganese, nickel, strontium and zinc in pure mineral form.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I will counter with this. See bottom of thread.

Excess Chloride - Effects on Calcification? - Reef Central Online Community

Excess Chloride - Effects on Calcification? The Reef Chemistry Forum

www.reefcentral.com

I've know a lot of SPS keepers over the past 30 years that go through calcium chloride in 50lb bags, do sporadic water changes and don't have problems.

Yes, that may well be. Does it apply to all organisms we want to keep? No idea.

 

[arking_mark]

Unlike dosing calcium chloride and sodium carbonate, calcium hydroxide does not "cause" any imbalance (except for a small long term effect of calcium rising relative to alkalinity).

Thus, it does not need to use, or benefit fromm, products like Balling Part C.

You just need to replace what is consumed by organisms.

Various products do that. My DIY magnesium supplement (#3 below) is designed to use with kalkwasser:

Do-It-Yourself Magnesium Supplements for the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

I used limewater (kalkwasser) for 20 years. Borate never depleted and I never added any, except by 1% daily water changes. IMO, it is not a primary concern for supplementation, and I'm not sure if it has any utility in a reef tank aside from a small pH stabilizing effect.

My Triton Testing Results: By Randy Holmes-Farley - REEFEDITION

Recently, Triton GmbH in Germany has initiated a method of testing many ions at once for a single price. In the US, that service is coordinated by Unique Corals. For $49 they will send you a couple of tubes to collect a tank water sample, and a prepaid mailer to send the sample back to them...

www.reefedition.com

Boron (B; borate). The borate is about normal. I do not add it. It seemingly is not depleted in my aquarium.

I'm also not of the opinion that strontium has utility.

That said, many supplements include these:

K+ ELEMENTS - Tropic Marin®

K+ ELEMENTS contains essential cationic trace elements to support an ideal growth and natural colouration of corals in a reef aquarium.

www.tropic-marin-smartinfo.com

Tropic Marin® K+ ELEMENTS contains barium, boron, chromium, cobalt, iron, copper, manganese, nickel, strontium and zinc in pure mineral form.

So something like:
Kalkwasser for Ca/Alk (bonus Ph boost)
Brightwell Magnesion-P or DIY for Magnesium
Tropic Marine K+ and A- elements for everything else

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So something like:
Kalkwasser for Ca/Alk (bonus Ph boost)
Brightwell Magnesion-P or DIY for Magnesium
Tropic Marine K+ and A- elements for everything else

Yes, but you can just buy the DIY magnesium ingredients cheaper than Brightwell.

 

[arking_mark]

Yes, but you can just buy the DIY magnesium ingredients cheaper than Brightwell.

I'm a lazy reefer. Trying to ULM my dosing...I was using the Triton method which allows me to dose everything based on Alk measurement. Since I now have low PH due to indoor CO2 I want to use Kalkwasser which would preclude me from effectively using the Triton method.

With the above, I have essentially 4 part dosing that provides everything...just like the Triton method parts (1, 2, 3a, 3b) ...so I don't need additional equipment. I'll just use the minimal dosing to start and Triton ICP testing to zero in my dosing. I just wish there was a rule of thumb for dosing the trace ions/elements based on Alk consumption so I can just dial them in.