DIY Stand.. Do I need to worry about this?

[Greybeard]

As a hobbyist woodworker, and a long time aquarist, I have built many stands. I've done everything from a 40 tank LFS display system, simple wrapped 2x4's, furniture grade solid wood and ply... my latest is welded, powder coated steel, with a rather non-traditional wood cabinetry 'surround'.

Not trying to offend anyone, just my $0.02 worth...

You do not need a dimensional lumber framework under a 3/4" plywood 'skin'. A well designed, properly assembled 3/4" hardwood ply stand is plenty strong. Far stronger than a stand made from screwed together, butt joined 2x4's. Plywood is STRONG. Layered, laminated, hardwood ply is far stronger than a softwood board of the same dimensions. The dimensional lumber that fills the shelves at your local building supply yard are made from soft spruce, fir, or pine. Is it strong enough to support a tank? Sure! There's lots of 2x4 or 2x6 stands out there to prove it, works just fine. Is it stronger than a well built plywood stand? Nope.

The last wood stand I built was for a 60 cube. It was designed to incorporate a 6" shelf, all the way around the tank, finished with a mosaic tile top. The stand was built from solid poplar and 3/4" cabinet grade plywood. No screws, excepting the hinge mounts and door handles. No internal 2x4 framework... Just biscuit, rabbit and dado joints, wood glue, and a bunch of clamps for assembly. That stand could have doubled as a stool for an elephant. The floor under it would have collapsed before the stand would have. I sold the tank when I upgraded, but it's still in use today, solid as ever.

There's nothing wrong with a 2x4 structure and 3/4" ply surround... but IMHO, it's overkill. Properly designed, the ply without the 2x4's is plenty strong, and allows for a much more open design. I like open designs... which is why I went with steel on my latest build. It's about as 'open' as you can get

 

[cpark645]

You still don't have any support directly under the front cross beams.

Didn't you mention in your post that you also made a 48'' stand without a support under the front cross beam?

 

[Fin]

The stand for my 140 (and now 125 - same 48" x 24" footprint) does not have any vertical 2x4 supports, or any framing lumber at all. It was built by a professional cabinet maker who also owns large aquariums. The stand is made from double thickness, bonded 3/4" cabinet plywood. I am not sure if they used screws or nails, but all joints and wedge shaped bracing are epoxied. The front and rear headers are the same thickness as the plywood sides. The front is header is 6" and the rear is 12". The stand held the 140 for 11 years and it is still rock solid. I love having all of the extra room on the inside of the stand.

 

[Sleepydoc]

Didn't you mention in your post that you also made a 48'' stand without a support under the front cross beam?

At the ends - unless I'm looking at your drawing wrong, both the plywood and 1x cross beams are held in place from the sides; there's no vertical support underneath them anywhere.

 

[paphater]

As a hobbyist woodworker, and a long time aquarist, I have built many stands. I've done everything from a 40 tank LFS display system, simple wrapped 2x4's, furniture grade solid wood and ply... my latest is welded, powder coated steel, with a rather non-traditional wood cabinetry 'surround'.

Not trying to offend anyone, just my $0.02 worth...

You do not need a dimensional lumber framework under a 3/4" plywood 'skin'. A well designed, properly assembled 3/4" hardwood ply stand is plenty strong. Far stronger than a stand made from screwed together, butt joined 2x4's. Plywood is STRONG. Layered, laminated, hardwood ply is far stronger than a softwood board of the same dimensions. The dimensional lumber that fills the shelves at your local building supply yard are made from soft spruce, fir, or pine. Is it strong enough to support a tank? Sure! There's lots of 2x4 or 2x6 stands out there to prove it, works just fine. Is it stronger than a well built plywood stand? Nope.

The last wood stand I built was for a 60 cube. It was designed to incorporate a 6" shelf, all the way around the tank, finished with a mosaic tile top. The stand was built from solid poplar and 3/4" cabinet grade plywood. No screws, excepting the hinge mounts and door handles. No internal 2x4 framework... Just biscuit, rabbit and dado joints, wood glue, and a bunch of clamps for assembly. That stand could have doubled as a stool for an elephant. The floor under it would have collapsed before the stand would have. I sold the tank when I upgraded, but it's still in use today, solid as ever.

There's nothing wrong with a 2x4 structure and 3/4" ply surround... but IMHO, it's overkill. Properly designed, the ply without the 2x4's is plenty strong, and allows for a much more open design. I like open designs... which is why I went with steel on my latest build. It's about as 'open' as you can get

The only thing I would say to this is that a 2x4 framed stand is more user/builder friendly, which I think is important since he is totally new to wood working.

 

[cpark645]

Since I am new to woodworking, I think I will use some 2x4's for peace of mind. I'm not planning on using any fancy wood joints, just a kreg jig and wood glue.

@Sleepydoc I think I see what you mean... I made a slight adjustment. The front 2x4 of the top frame was being held from the sides. I've changed it so it's sitting on top of the corner supports. I've also put a plywood board in front to bind the crossframe with the side plywood boards and the corner supports. This this will help?

Also, I'm planning on cutting a hole on the side so I can access my electrical cabinet which will sit in the stand. Will this affect the integrity of the stand drastically?

 

[Greybeard]

The only thing I would say to this is that a 2x4 framed stand is more user/builder friendly, which I think is important since he is totally new to wood working.

No disagreement there. Screw together a 2x4 frame, screw panels to the frame to keep it from twisting and wracking, and you've got a simple, stable structure. Smear some wood glue on the joints, and it'll hold up for many years.

However, woodworking is a skill, learned, like any other... not unlike reefkeeping itself. As I said, it's not that a framed and skinned stand won't work... it will. It's been proved many times. It's just all the advise saying you NEED such a structure that I disagree with. You don't... and that's been proven just as many times as the former.

The sketch from post #8 would work just fine, with a few tweaks...

Here's another sketchup. Same dimensions, doubled up front face, laminated overlaps. Gives you a nice, heavy front frame, surrounding your door opening. Glued and screwed, no fancy joints... Nice and stable. Uses very little extra ply over the original design, doesn't need any 2x4's, and strong? You bet.

 

[cpark645]

No disagreement there. Screw together a 2x4 frame, screw panels to the frame to keep it from twisting and wracking, and you've got a simple, stable structure. Smear some wood glue on the joints, and it'll hold up for many years.

However, woodworking is a skill, learned, like any other... not unlike reefkeeping itself. As I said, it's not that a framed and skinned stand won't work... it will. It's been proved many times. It's just all the advise saying you NEED such a structure that I disagree with. You don't... and that's been proven just as many times as the former.

The sketch from post #8 would work just fine, with a few tweaks...

Here's another sketchup. Same dimensions, doubled up front face, laminated overlaps. Gives you a nice, heavy front frame, surrounding your door opening. Glued and screwed, no fancy joints... Nice and stable. Uses very little extra ply over the original design, doesn't need any 2x4's, and strong? You bet.

Thanks for the SketchUp. This looks very doable!

Do you have any advice on what kind of plywood I should purchase? Also, how I should paint the stand so it is waterproof?

 

[paphater]

No disagreement there. Screw together a 2x4 frame, screw panels to the frame to keep it from twisting and wracking, and you've got a simple, stable structure. Smear some wood glue on the joints, and it'll hold up for many years.

However, woodworking is a skill, learned, like any other... not unlike reefkeeping itself. As I said, it's not that a framed and skinned stand won't work... it will. It's been proved many times. It's just all the advise saying you NEED such a structure that I disagree with. You don't... and that's been proven just as many times as the former.

So true. I just got a router this summer and I'm hoping I can learn some new tricks. I've built plenty of stuff that was strong and functional but I'm hoping to start some projects soon that focus on aesthetics.

 

[cpark645]

No disagreement there. Screw together a 2x4 frame, screw panels to the frame to keep it from twisting and wracking, and you've got a simple, stable structure. Smear some wood glue on the joints, and it'll hold up for many years.

However, woodworking is a skill, learned, like any other... not unlike reefkeeping itself. As I said, it's not that a framed and skinned stand won't work... it will. It's been proved many times. It's just all the advise saying you NEED such a structure that I disagree with. You don't... and that's been proven just as many times as the former.

The sketch from post #8 would work just fine, with a few tweaks...

Here's another sketchup. Same dimensions, doubled up front face, laminated overlaps. Gives you a nice, heavy front frame, surrounding your door opening. Glued and screwed, no fancy joints... Nice and stable. Uses very little extra ply over the original design, doesn't need any 2x4's, and strong? You bet.

Actually I really want to keep the front as open as possible... so I'd prefer my design if it is stable enough.

The reason is because I am trying to put in my sump and also have enough room for an electrical cabinet.

This is what I had envisioned at first. I won't be able to fit that electrical cabinet on the right if I have anything at the front. Of course I realize stability and strength comes first before anything else, I am just trying to see if there is a way to keep an almost completely open front. I think post #26 would be ideal if it is strong enough.

 

[Greybeard]

Thanks for the SketchUp. This looks very doable!

Do you have any advice on what kind of plywood I should purchase? Also, how I should paint the stand so it is waterproof?

You can certainly integrate a side section for electrical into this sort of thing... and if it were me, I'd get the bottom shelf an inch or two off the ground.

As for plywood, go to a woodworking supply, instead of a home depot or lowes, and ask for cabinet grade hardwood ply. If you're going to paint it, poplar works well... for stain, depends on what you want it to look like. My current stand is all done in oak ply.

For paint, I really like Rustoleum's TopSide marine paint. Drys HARD, waterproof, easily available, price isn't stupid high... Bright white inside helps you see better! If you like stain, pick your color, and go over it with a couple of coats of clear poly.

Something like this? You said you have a krieg jig... pocket screws anywhere that you've got an end to end butt joint would be good.

 

[Greybeard]

Actually I really want to keep the front as open as possible... so I'd prefer my design if it is stable enough.

Without some edge support around the front, I'd be worried about stability. I've been showing 6" verticals in front, but 3" verticals would be fine, if the front is doubled. You planning to leave it open, or put on doors? If you want to put on doors, you're going to want some sort of face frame to attach them to.

 

[Greybeard]

If you really want a totally open front, you could do it with a double layer plywood 'beam' across the top front. You'd need to cut 1.5" 'notches' in the tops of the three upright panels to accept the top beam, give it a solid resting point. With three uprights, it's going to be solid enough, even though one of the uprights is off center. I made the electronics section only 6" wide... looks from your sketch it's a bit wider than that. The closer to center the 3rd upright is, the better, so moving it further that way would be no problem.

Something like this:

 

[Greybeard]

Hm. Looking at that, it still looks like it could be a bit laterally unstable. You put a top on it, and it'd be fine... you were going to put a top on it, right?

 

[cpark645]

If you really want a totally open front, you could do it with a double layer plywood 'beam' across the top front. You'd need to cut 1.5" 'notches' in the tops of the three upright panels to accept the top beam, give it a solid resting point. With three uprights, it's going to be solid enough, even though one of the uprights is off center. I made the electronics section only 6" wide... looks from your sketch it's a bit wider than that. The closer to center the 3rd upright is, the better, so moving it further that way would be no problem.

Something like this:

This looks perfect. I think I'd make the electrical cabinet on the right a little wider, my sump is 36'' and my stand is 48'' so I should have about 10'' of space to use for the electrical.

Thanks so much @Greybeard

And yes, I was going to put plywood on top of it.

 

[Greybeard]

Ok, I moved the divider over so that you've got a half inch to spare for your sump, and stuck a top on it.

Sketchup model can be downloaded from:
http://midkiff.us/t2/StandIdea070618.skp if you want it

I wanna see pics of it done!

 

[cpark645]

I won't build it for a while, until I confirm the tank's dimensions once it's delivered. They said it will be 48x24x16 but I want to measure it and see for myself before I start building the stand, since I want the tank to be perfectly flush with the stand... I want to account for if the tank is 1/8'' off somewhere for example. I'm getting the tank from Crystal Dynamics, I just ordered it yesterday so it'll be another 6-8 weeks before I get the tank.

I'll make a build thread eventually. Thanks for all the help everyone... I'm very excited for this build

 

[Greybeard]

Good idea. You're never certain, until you've measured it yourself!

 

[cpark645]

What tool would you suggest for cutting out those notches and square holes in the plywood? I was thinking a Dremel would be good?

 

[Greybeard]

In my shop, I'd use my band saw... but if you had one of those available, you most likely wouldn't be asking

Hand held jig saw, perhaps?

Make the long cut, stopping short, with a circular saw, and finish it up with a hand saw?

I like dremel tools... for certain things. Cutting wood isn't really one of them.