Do I have Ich or Velvet starting in my tank??

Aronsaquarium

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I’ve attached 3 videos.
The first 2 are with my Queen Angel, they’re from tonight when it seems more and more to me like there may be ich or velvet.
The 3rd video is from my Blue Tang anweek ago where it didn’t look like ich but more like flukes/parasites.

So now I’m confused.. it started off looking like another parasite. So I have prazipro in the tank now.
But currently it’s started to take on a more ich/velvet type of look.

The fish are not flashing though, and Appetit seems decent though slightly less since doesing prazi 2 days ago which is normal.
things started looking a little better after Prazi And they didn’t look so white until now, so not sure what’s going on..

It still doesn’t look so much like ich or velvet. But I don’t know if this is how it starts..

Do I need to move things around and do copper?

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081
 
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Aronsaquarium

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I ca
I’ve attached 3 videos.
The first 2 are with my Queen Angel, they’re from tonight when it seems more and more to me like there may be ich or velvet.
The 3rd video is from my Blue Tang anweek ago where it didn’t look like ich but more like flukes/parasites.

So now I’m confused.. it started off looking like another parasite. So I have prazipro in the tank now.
But currently it’s started to take on a more ich/velvet type of look.

The fish are not flashing though, and Appetit seems decent though slightly less since doesing prazi 2 days ago which is normal.
things started looking a little better after Prazi And they didn’t look so white until now, so not sure what’s going on..

It still doesn’t look so much like ich or velvet. But I don’t know if this is how it starts..

Do I need to move things around and do copper?

@Jay Hemdal @vetteguy53081
open video on my phone but one of will see it in the morning
With velvet, you will see dusty appearance, fish gasping at surface, swimming in path of water flow and kiss of appetite
Ich will move every 24 hrs covering the fish and cause behavioral issues
Assure good water quality and normal breathing rate
 
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Aronsaquarium

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I went a little drastic to be safe, but I’ve converted my QT to clean water and moved my mushrooms, Starfish and Snails there.
and ive dosed Cupramine to my DT.

I can’t be sure that it’s ich or velvet.
But there are a bunch of tiny spots on my Queen. And I saw a little flashing on a couple of my smaller fish so I didn’t want to take the chance.

Because it’s almost a FOWLER tank plus those few inverts I mentioned above, it’s easy for me to do it this way and remove the Cupramine in a while once everything’s all clear.

Drastic I know but prazi didn’t seem to slow things down much so I’m thinking this
 

Jay Hemdal

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I went a little drastic to be safe, but I’ve converted my QT to clean water and moved my mushrooms, Starfish and Snails there.
and ive dosed Cupramine to my DT.

I can’t be sure that it’s ich or velvet.
But there are a bunch of tiny spots on my Queen. And I saw a little flashing on a couple of my smaller fish so I didn’t want to take the chance.

Because it’s almost a FOWLER tank plus those few inverts I mentioned above, it’s easy for me to do it this way and remove the Cupramine in a while once everything’s all clear.

Drastic I know but prazi didn’t seem to slow things down much so I’m thinking this

The hepatus tang looks like it could have ich. Tough to see the spots on the queen angel. I think a copper treatment would be warranted in this case. I prefer Coppersafe over Cupramine, just be sure you keep the Cupramine dose at 0.50 ppm.

Jay
 
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Aronsaquarium

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Thanks so much!

So it’s appearing as cloudy spots on the fins and tail of the Queen.
Not really pieces of salt. But lots of cloudy little spots. With a few defined white dots amongst them.

My QT and DT have switched roles at this point. And I put in the first dose of copper. But it’ll take a couple days until I’m at full strength.
Especially with the rocks and sand.

I just hope im doing the right medication..
 

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Have you considered dipping your fish in fresh water bath then quarantine them for 7 days. Immediately add a UV sterilizing light to the slowest flow in your return. They are sold cheap on amazon and will slow the reproduction, not eliminate it, at best slow it down to allow the fish to recover. Keep the fish eating. Add garlic to your food to help them stay hungry and improves immune system. Ideally you remove the fish and add the fish to a fallow tank, add copper, and return back to display 7-14 days later.
 
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Ok so this is confirmed either ich or velvet.
It spread super fast on my Queen angel.

The full tank is now at .49 ppm Cupramine.

Anything else I can do to alleviate stress from the Queen in the meantime??

I’m assuming the ich can’t spread anymore but he’s breathing pretty rapidly though still eating a little.
 

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Ok so this is confirmed either ich or velvet.
It spread super fast on my Queen angel.

The full tank is now at .49 ppm Cupramine.

Anything else I can do to alleviate stress from the Queen in the meantime??

I’m assuming the ich can’t spread anymore but he’s breathing pretty rapidly though still eating a little.

Just be sure the tank has good aeration. Copper is not an instant cure, so there is a risk that the fish will getter sicker/die before it can work, but I think you caught it in time.

Jay
 

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Ok so this is confirmed either ich or velvet.
It spread super fast on my Queen angel.

The full tank is now at .49 ppm Cupramine.

Anything else I can do to alleviate stress from the Queen in the meantime??

I’m assuming the ich can’t spread anymore but he’s breathing pretty rapidly though still eating a little.
You're going to have to make sure that fish eats, just moving tanks can mess up eating and nutrition is paramount for getting through this in the long run.. heavy breathing is not a good sign, in my option, that's the tail end of it. Good luck man.
 
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Aronsaquarium

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Just be sure the tank has good aeration. Copper is not an instant cure, so there is a risk that the fish will getter sicker/die before it can work, but I think you caught it in time.

Jay
Thank you so much Jay and everyone else here!
So todays question,
The queens breathing looks to have stabilised hopefully!
And the tank in general seems to have gotten more stable after adding in the copper.

Should I freshwater dip her with a couple drops of Prazi in it? (Or methylene blue.)

I didn’t the last couple days, as I felt with the fast breathing it was too risky and could push her over the edge.
But with more stable breathing maybe I can alleviate some of the stress?

When I first put in the copper I had a major bristle worm mass casualty event, I had no idea I even had them. And the PH went down etc.
That seems to have stabilised. And I’ve been pumping air in from my protein skimmer.
 

Jay Hemdal

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Thank you so much Jay and everyone else here!
So todays question,
The queens breathing looks to have stabilised hopefully!
And the tank in general seems to have gotten more stable after adding in the copper.

Should I freshwater dip her with a couple drops of Prazi in it? (Or methylene blue.)

I didn’t the last couple days, as I felt with the fast breathing it was too risky and could push her over the edge.
But with more stable breathing maybe I can alleviate some of the stress?

When I first put in the copper I had a major bristle worm mass casualty event, I had no idea I even had them. And the PH went down etc.
That seems to have stabilised. And I’ve been pumping air in from my protein skimmer.

You should check the ammonia level in the tank for the four to five days following the worm die off.

Don't give dips with just "some medication added". Prazi can be used in a 1 to 3 hour bath, but does not work in a short term dip. Methylene blue is old school and really doesn't have any benefit. If the fish has gill flukes, a 5 minute FW dip will help...but only do that if you can catch the fish without chasing it all over the tank and possibly injuring it.

Jay
 
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Aronsaquarium

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Had such a good year and a half with my fish tank, and and then calamity after calamity last month or 2.

But I need to know what happened here for the other fish in the tank and my sanity.

Do these spots in the gills look like ich?
Or is this something else?

I have no idea what to look for, but right now all the fish are in copper so want to make sure I’m treating everyone else correctly too.

@Jay Hemdal
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Jay Hemdal

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Sorry to see.

Those spots are too large to be ich. Even gill flukes typically require a microscope to see.

I'm not sure what they are - two possibilities are microsporidian xenomas or bacterial nodules. I'd say microsporidians. This is a group of poorly known parasites with no real treatment. Here is an excerpt that I wrote about them:

Microsporidians were once thought to be protozoans but are now considered more closely related to fungi. They are obligate intracellular parasites, and create lesions called xenomas. One of the more commonly seen, called Glugea, creates white, smooth masses inside and outside of infected fish. Some people may mistake these growths for Cryptocaryon, but any spot that stays in the same position on a fish for more than a few days is not Cryptocaryon. Pseudoloma neurophilia is a common microsporidian pathogen found in zebrafish (Danio rerio) in research facilities. It causes emaciation and skeletal deformities, and thus may be confused with the symptoms of Mycobacterium sp. infections. There is no routine treatment for these diseases but borrowing from a treatment used to control Nosema infections in honeybees, one experimental treatment has been proposed: Fumagillin DCH administered in food, at 0.1 g/kg food at 1.5% body weight daily ration for four weeks. This seemed to prevent mortalities in one report.

Heterosporis sp. is another group of microsporidians. They occur within the skeletal muscle cells of fish, where it creates sporophorocysts up to 200 µm in diameter. New spores, 7-10 µm across grow inside vesicles found inside the sporophorocysts. Muscle tissue turns opaque and cloudy in affected fish, sometimes appearing granular. In gamefish, this makes the flesh unappetizing to anglers. This microsporidian group has been isolated from a wide range of freshwater fishes, including many aquarium species; angelfish (Pterophyllum scalare), Betta (Betta splendens), Loricariid catfish and Cichlids. Currently, there is no known treatment, and the level of morbidity seen in various fish is unknown. If a necropsy is not performed, infections will not be identified. Even with a necropsy, focus is generally made on internal organs, skin and gills, so sporophorocysts in the muscles can easily be missed.



Jay
 
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Aronsaquarium

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Thank you so much @Jay Hemdal!

I’ve kept quiet the last few days as I wanted to see how things settle in the tank.

The fish are all looking clear, though I’m still seeing a little flashing a few times a day.

And the only visible thing I’m seeing is this on my (converted) puffer?

Only on one eye, and you can see something is physically sticking out there.

Any thoughts on what this all may be?

Thanks a million!
 

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Thank you so much @Jay Hemdal!

I’ve kept quiet the last few days as I wanted to see how things settle in the tank.

The fish are all looking clear, though I’m still seeing a little flashing a few times a day.

And the only visible thing I’m seeing is this on my (converted) puffer?

Only on one eye, and you can see something is physically sticking out there.

Any thoughts on what this all may be?

Thanks a million!


Looks like a skin tag from a scrape on the eye. It could also be a Neobendenia flukes, but those usually infect both eyes.

This puffer went through a prazi treatment, right? If so, I'd rule out flukes at this point.


Jay
 
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Aronsaquarium

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It was added to my tank with Prazi in it 12-15 hours after dosing. So I’d say it hasn’t really had proper prazi treatment.

If I’m seeing some flashing in the tank in general, so I guess it wouldn’t hurt to dose with Prazi.

There’s Cupramine in it though. Is that ok to dose prazi too in?

Otherwise I can pull him out and put him in a separate tank.
My thoughts just are if there’s something in that tank still, then I’m going to have to dose it anyways..
 

Jay Hemdal

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It was added to my tank with Prazi in it 12-15 hours after dosing. So I’d say it hasn’t really had proper prazi treatment.

If I’m seeing some flashing in the tank in general, so I guess it wouldn’t hurt to dose with Prazi.

There’s Cupramine in it though. Is that ok to dose prazi too in?

Otherwise I can pull him out and put him in a separate tank.
My thoughts just are if there’s something in that tank still, then I’m going to have to dose it anyways..


Although I prefer not to dose prazi along with cupramine, it can be done. What form of prazi do you have? Prazipro needs to be aerated really well after dosing.

Jay
 

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