Please help… I don’t know what else to do

megtrax17

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Messages
156
Reaction score
123
Location
Bellefonte
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I’m on about day 8 of copper treatment level of between 2 and 4. I plan on getting a better copper reader but api is all I had on hand right now.

I posted when all this started and we all thought it was ich. However 2 days into QT my flame angel unfortunatley didn’t make it. 48 hours later my flame hawk passed as well. I’m starting to think it’s velvet and not ick. However I feel like copper isn’t working because my tang who showed ZERO signs now is covered. He also has what looks like an injury on his fin but he’s been pretty territorial. (My clowns can also be mean). He’s the only one with visible spots but my wrasse has clamped fins.

Right before my angel died I did a FW dip based on instructions from these forums. The angel passed shortly after and there were 0 signs of flukes.

Is there anything else that presents as velvet or ich but isn’t velvet or ich? Does the copper just take time to work?

I have a seachem badge for ammonia and have been doing water changes every 3 days. I’m tired I want to know I’m treating for the right thing…

Everyone’s eating like hogs so I don’t see appetite problems. Even the tang has been chowing down on mysid and nori.

Video for whomever is able to view it.

They’re in a 10 gallon right now which I assumed would be fine till the 76 day fallow period. Should I change to a bigger size or keep the small size?

I am using coppersafe. The plants and hides/pvc are for my territorial clowns and hides for the fish to feel less stress. I’m also using garlic soaked food.

All advice is super appreciated. IMG_8268.jpeg IMG_8266.jpeg IMG_8265.jpeg IMG_8264.jpeg IMG_8263.jpeg IMG_8259.jpeg
 

Attachments

  • IMG_8267.mov
    56.4 MB
Last edited:

vetteguy53081

Well known Member and monster tank lover
View Badges
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
92,619
Reaction score
205,038
Location
Wisconsin -
Rating - 100%
14   0   0
I’m on about day 8 of copper treatment level of between 2 and 4. I plan on getting a better copper reader but api is all I had on hand right now.

I posted when all this started and we all thought it was ich. However 2 days into QT my flame angel unfortunatley didn’t make it. 48 hours later my flame hawk passed as well. I’m starting to think it’s velvet and not ick. However I feel like copper isn’t working because my tang who showed ZERO signs now is covered. He also has what looks like an injury on his fin but he’s been pretty territorial. (My clowns can also be mean). He’s the only one with visible spots but my wrasse has clamped fins.

Right before my angel died I did a FW dip based on instructions from these forums. The angel passed shortly after and there were 0 signs of flukes.

Is there anything else that presents as velvet or ich but isn’t velvet or ich? Does the copper just take time to work?

I have a seachem badge for ammonia and have been doing water changes every 3 days. I’m tired I want to know I’m treating for the right thing…

Everyone’s eating like hogs so I don’t see appetite problems. Even the tang has been chowing down on mysid and nori.

Video for whomever is able to view it.

They’re in a 10 gallon right now which I assumed would be fine till the 76 day fallow period. Should I change to a bigger size or keep the small size?

All advice is super appreciated. IMG_8268.jpeg IMG_8266.jpeg IMG_8265.jpeg IMG_8264.jpeg IMG_8263.jpeg IMG_8259.jpeg
there is a few concerns here. Is this tank being used as a quarantine?
If so, remove any rocks and the plastic plants. Additionally the range you gave is concerning. Are you using ionic copper (cupramine) or chelated form such as coppersafe? The test kit likely off and if coppersafe, effectiveness starts at 2.0 and 4 is overdose. It need to be steady at 2.25 or 2.5 and remain constant for a full 3o days with added aeration and monitoring of ammonia level with a Reliable test kit
 

Crabs McJones

I'm so shi-nay
View Badges
Joined
Jul 24, 2017
Messages
27,458
Reaction score
138,713
Location
Wisconsin
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Which copper treatment are you using? Are those rock decorations porus? Could be absorbing and bringing copper levels down.
 
OP
OP
megtrax17

megtrax17

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Messages
156
Reaction score
123
Location
Bellefonte
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
there is a few concerns here. Is this tank being used as a quarantine?
If so, remove any rocks and the plastic plants. Additionally the range you gave is concerning. Are you using ionic copper (cupramine) or chelated form such as coppersafe? The test kit likely off and if coppersafe, effectiveness starts at 2.0 and 4 is overdose. It need to be steady at 2.25 or 2.5 and remain constant for a full 3o days with added aeration and monitoring of ammonia level with a Reliable test kit
I’d say it’s probably around 2.5. It’s coppersafe. It is just quarantine. I added the fake rock hides due to the fish being territorial, especially the clowns and hides for the tank to prevent less stress.
 
OP
OP
megtrax17

megtrax17

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Messages
156
Reaction score
123
Location
Bellefonte
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Which copper treatment are you using? Are those rock decorations porus? Could be absorbing and bringing copper levels down.
Not really porous. They are hollow caves. I’ve been testing copper daily and it hasn’t changed.

I’ll remove them anyways though if you think that is a possibility!
 

Jay Hemdal

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
26,258
Reaction score
26,028
Location
Dundee, MI
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Not really porous. They are hollow caves. I’ve been testing copper daily and it hasn’t changed.

I’ll remove them anyways though if you think that is a possibility!
The problem is that disease symptoms can mimic those of copper poisoning. As said, you need to be between 2.25 and 2.5. Most people find they need to use the Hanna HR checker.
 
OP
OP
megtrax17

megtrax17

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Messages
156
Reaction score
123
Location
Bellefonte
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
The problem is that disease symptoms can mimic those of copper poisoning. As said, you need to be between 2.25 and 2.5. Most people find they need to use the Hanna HR checker.
I’ll buy one online but only choice I have in the time being is the api one. It’s hard to read the colors.

I didn’t know this could be a symptom. Thank you for the info. The wrasse has been flashing.
 

Jay Hemdal

10K Club member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Messages
26,258
Reaction score
26,028
Location
Dundee, MI
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I’ll buy one online but only choice I have in the time being is the api one. It’s hard to read the colors.

I didn’t know this could be a symptom. Thank you for the info. The wrasse has been flashing.
It’s a lot of work, but the API test us most accurate if you make up some water with the exact amount of copper added, test it, then take a picture of that color and use that as a standard to match in future tests.
 
OP
OP
megtrax17

megtrax17

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Messages
156
Reaction score
123
Location
Bellefonte
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So weird update. The tang still has SOME spots but he looked a MILLION times better today. Those spots appeared overnight yesterday. Today the injury was practically healed and the spots are super minimal. So maybe the copper is working? I’m doing a FW dip today and a rally pro bath to help incase. I’m so nervous about the FW dip since that’s what did my angel in.
 
OP
OP
megtrax17

megtrax17

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Messages
156
Reaction score
123
Location
Bellefonte
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
IMG_8279.jpeg


The fish are currently in their rally pro bath. They handled the FW dip well. I changed the hides to PVC sheeting only. Build with super glue and something heavy to hold them down.
 
OP
OP
megtrax17

megtrax17

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Messages
156
Reaction score
123
Location
Bellefonte
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Updating the thread for anyone that needs it. I still don’t know if it was ich or velvet. But I’m gonna go with velvet since the spots are smaller and less distinct/hard to count and see unless a certain angle. Not your typical “dusty” look but not enough for me to think ich wither. Anyways I did a 3 minute freshwater dip on each fish. Then a 3 hour rally pro bath in a separate bucket following the FW dip. Both with heat and an air pump. The fish are A million times better today. No more flashing and no more spots. They went back into QT with a copper level between 2-4 with copper safe using an api test kit (Hanna copper tester is on its way in the mail).

Oh and I removed anything that I suspected to be “porous” based on previous recommendations!

IMG_8288.jpeg
IMG_8286.jpeg
 

Peair

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 3, 2024
Messages
250
Reaction score
328
Location
Camp Lejeune
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I’m on about day 8 of copper treatment level of between 2 and 4. I plan on getting a better copper reader but api is all I had on hand right now.

I posted when all this started and we all thought it was ich. However 2 days into QT my flame angel unfortunatley didn’t make it. 48 hours later my flame hawk passed as well. I’m starting to think it’s velvet and not ick. However I feel like copper isn’t working because my tang who showed ZERO signs now is covered. He also has what looks like an injury on his fin but he’s been pretty territorial. (My clowns can also be mean). He’s the only one with visible spots but my wrasse has clamped fins.

Right before my angel died I did a FW dip based on instructions from these forums. The angel passed shortly after and there were 0 signs of flukes.

Is there anything else that presents as velvet or ich but isn’t velvet or ich? Does the copper just take time to work?

I have a seachem badge for ammonia and have been doing water changes every 3 days. I’m tired I want to know I’m treating for the right thing…

Everyone’s eating like hogs so I don’t see appetite problems. Even the tang has been chowing down on mysid and nori.

Video for whomever is able to view it.

They’re in a 10 gallon right now which I assumed would be fine till the 76 day fallow period. Should I change to a bigger size or keep the small size?

I am using coppersafe. The plants and hides/pvc are for my territorial clowns and hides for the fish to feel less stress. I’m also using garlic soaked food.

All advice is super appreciated. IMG_8268.jpeg IMG_8266.jpeg IMG_8265.jpeg IMG_8264.jpeg IMG_8263.jpeg IMG_8259.jpeg
I would try a different approach when using Copper or coppersafe, it's a lot of days now on cooper, I know you are trying to stay in range, try doing your regular dose of copper and wait 30 minutes, and then do a 15% Quality water change, and then do this repeatedly for the next few days, and never wait more than 30 minutes to do that water change, I did this technique on sick corals and fish, and it seemed to revive, refresh, and make them stronger so they can fight off the disease.
 
OP
OP
megtrax17

megtrax17

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Messages
156
Reaction score
123
Location
Bellefonte
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
So I looked back at my calendar and days of treatment (I was a few days off in my original post) but I’m officially day 19 of copper. I think it’s time to end copper. I don’t think it’s ich or velvet at this point. Maybe flukes? Gonna end copper and treat with prazi but if anyone else has any input let me know. Here’s some pics from today. Spots appeared yesterday for the first time since my last post. So first spots again since 7 days ago?

IMG_8476.jpeg
IMG_8478.jpeg
IMG_8493.jpeg
IMG_8491.jpeg IMG_8480.png
 

vetteguy53081

Well known Member and monster tank lover
View Badges
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
92,619
Reaction score
205,038
Location
Wisconsin -
Rating - 100%
14   0   0
So I looked back at my calendar and days of treatment (I was a few days off in my original post) but I’m officially day 19 of copper. I think it’s time to end copper. I don’t think it’s ich or velvet at this point. Maybe flukes? Gonna end copper and treat with prazi but if anyone else has any input let me know. Here’s some pics from today. Spots appeared yesterday for the first time since my last post. So first spots again since 7 days ago?

IMG_8476.jpeg
IMG_8478.jpeg
IMG_8493.jpeg
IMG_8491.jpeg IMG_8480.png
Pics are fuzzy but appears to be ich/mucus cones mixed with ich
 
OP
OP
megtrax17

megtrax17

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Messages
156
Reaction score
123
Location
Bellefonte
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
That is how ick lives.

Screenshot_20240321_101017_Chrome.jpg
So I’m very familiar with the stages. And I mean 6-7 days is pretty spot on but it’s protruding more than I would think ich would. It’s also sort of fuzzy and not prominent.

Pics are fuzzy but appears to be ich/mucus cones mixed with ich
The spots are actually fuzzy and not prominent at all. They sorry of protrude and stick off the surface.
 
OP
OP
megtrax17

megtrax17

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Messages
156
Reaction score
123
Location
Bellefonte
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Here’s a video for anyone that’s able to pull it up. The spots present as sort of tuft like. Can ich survive the free swimming stage in copper??
 

Attachments

  • IMG_8498.mov
    35.8 MB

vetteguy53081

Well known Member and monster tank lover
View Badges
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
92,619
Reaction score
205,038
Location
Wisconsin -
Rating - 100%
14   0   0
So I’m very familiar with the stages. And I mean 6-7 days is pretty spot on but it’s protruding more than I would think ich would. It’s also sort of fuzzy and not prominent.


The spots are actually fuzzy and not prominent at all. They sorry of protrude and stick off the surface.
Yes, making them musuc cones. Often with be raised with mucus and even strings coming off of them
 
OP
OP
megtrax17

megtrax17

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Oct 17, 2021
Messages
156
Reaction score
123
Location
Bellefonte
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Yes, making them musuc cones. Often with be raised with mucus and even strings coming off of them
I don’t see strings but do you think the ich is a strain that can survive copper? I have kept a very stable copper level of 2.3. If it is what alternate approach do you think I should take?
 

Ingenuity against algae: Do you use DIY methods for controlling nuisance algae?

  • I have used DIY methods for controlling algae.

    Votes: 34 49.3%
  • I use commercial methods for controlling algae, but never DIY methods.

    Votes: 13 18.8%
  • I have not used commercial or DIY methods for controlling algae.

    Votes: 16 23.2%
  • Other.

    Votes: 6 8.7%
Back
Top