Do I really need to do a 100% water change?

[sawdavis]

I have had a 75 gallon mixed reef tank since August. I purchased it used from owner who said he had it for two years. I kept most of his original water. At the beginning, the water calcium tested out at 280 ppm, KH was around 9, all other parameters were within normal limits. I began using a two part solution system (Fusion by Seachem) to raise the level. The highest I was able to raise it to was 380 ppm but KH went up to 12. Then suddenly, the Calcium dropped to 260 and the KH went up to 14. Magnesium was at 1180. I called a "reef expert" at Bulk Reef Supply company and he told me I needed to do a 100% water change all at once because the water calcium had precipitated out. I hate to do such a drastic water change because I have a refugium that I have been nurturing along and pods that I'm afraid will be destroyed. What should I do?

 

[LARedstickreefer]

Raise your magnesium up to 1300ppm and then see if you can bring up Calcium.

Edit: Don’t use the alkalinity part of the 2 part right now.

 

[albano]

If I thought that I needed to do 100% WC and livestock seemed fine...I’d do 40g now, another 40 in a few days and another 40g a few days later. Testing in between WCs

 

[MERKEY]

This is the tricky part of the hobby....

You are going to get a lot of different opinions.

Just a little food for thought....

You know your tank is established enough to take a %100 water change so doing it really wont hurt anything. The pods will be ok as well(yes you will lose some but most dont live in the water) and as the bacteria in the rock and sand and all over the glass and pumps and sump and everywhere is very well established I am thinking pods as well as everything else will be ok.

If you do a %100 water change then dont dose a 2 part until you get your numbers under control. But a %100 RODI water change should bring your numbers pretty much back to normal or what ever the salt mix you are using pre mixed to. And if it doesnt then you know something else is going on.

If you dont want to do a %100 water change then try to bring your cal and mag up to match the alk so they start using each other correctly. The problem here is that you will be raising your whole tank to a higher level. A lot of people run mag over 1600 to get rid of bryopsis so running higher levels wont kill everything but you have to be careful not to adjust too quickly because that will hurt stuff.

I wish you luck and keep us posted!

 

[bluprntguy]

Stop dosing the alkalinity portion and instead only dose calcium portion (looks like that’s bottle #1) until everything is re-balanced. There are usually max dosages on the bottles, but shoot for 20ppm per day increase. I’d also do as large a water change as you can. Leave the water in your fuge and enough in the tank for the fish (if any).

Once everything is re-balanced or your alkalinity drops back down to 7 or 8, then you can go back to dosing equal parts of 1 and 2.

 

[Cfellini91]

Really just piggybacking at this point since a lot of good advice was thrown your way.
I had a similar issue an unsettling amount of times when I first started in the hobby. Partially due to naïveté and in part due to the 2 part dosing. I am not a fan of the two part. It can work against you and easily over react parameters. I now use a varying array of products such asSeachems reef builder pH buffer and Seachem calcium. I haven’t needed an alk buffer. I maintain an alk average of 8, calcium at 440ppm and mag. 1300.

Raise your magnesium up to 1300ppm and then see if you can bring up Calcium.

Edit: Don’t use the alkalinity part of the 2 part right now.

This is solid advice. Raise your mag, check again and do a 30-40% WC if needed. Try raiding mag again. Use a single part calcium supplement. Understanding the interaction of it all and problem solving is challenging. Here’s two articles that helped me a lot.
For chemistry knowledge

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/rhf/feature/index.php

and for troubleshooting

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Solving Calcium And Alkalinity Problems

I hope this article proves useful is understanding and dealing with the different types of calcium and alkalinity problems encountered by reef keepers. Once you get calcium and alkalinity under control, you are far along the road to having your tank chemistry optimal for its inhabitants.

www.advancedaquarist.com

 

[sawdavis]

Really just piggybacking at this point since a lot of good advice was thrown your way.
I had a similar issue an unsettling amount of times when I first started in the hobby. Partially due to naïveté and in part due to the 2 part dosing. I am not a fan of the two part. It can work against you and easily over react parameters. I now use a varying array of products such asSeachems reef builder pH buffer and Seachem calcium. I haven’t needed an alk buffer. I maintain an alk average of 8, calcium at 440ppm and mag. 1300.


This is solid advice. Raise your mag, check again and do a 30-40% WC if needed. Try raiding mag again. Use a single part calcium supplement. Understanding the interaction of it all and problem solving is challenging. Here’s two articles that helped me a lot.
For chemistry knowledge

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/rhf/feature/index.php

and for troubleshooting

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Solving Calcium And Alkalinity Problems

I hope this article proves useful is understanding and dealing with the different types of calcium and alkalinity problems encountered by reef keepers. Once you get calcium and alkalinity under control, you are far along the road to having your tank chemistry optimal for its inhabitants.

www.advancedaquarist.com

Thanks so much for the information and advice. I think I'll try doing the raising MG level and only dosing calcium before resorting to a significant water change( since I don't have that much water on hand!) Really liked the articles you sent me. Thanks again!

 

[Cfellini91]

Thanks so much for the information and advice. I think I'll try doing the raising MG level and only dosing calcium before resorting to a significant water change( since I don't have that much water on hand!) Really liked the articles you sent me. Thanks again!

Glad to hear man! Keep us posted! Glad it helped!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I’d add a couple of points.

1. the big drop in calcium from 380 to 260 was test error. Definitely not precipitation unless alkalinity dropped by 16.8 dKH (which it obviously did not unless you added a huge amount of alk without the balanced amount of calcium additive). Folks blaming precipitation really need to look closer can just a reported drop in calcium.

2. Seachem reef fusion is not properly designed to be a 1:1 dosing product despite their claim. So do not expect exact 1:1 dosing to work long term.

 

[Cfellini91]

Thanks for that. I’ve been dozing that for a year and have maintained good parameters, I am looking to move to using Kalk so thank you for you that insight. I am great full for all your insight and knowledge on the reef tanks in general and read many of your articles. Thank you again.

I’d add a couple of points.

1. the big drop in calcium from 380 to 260 was test error. Definitely not precipitation unless alkalinity dropped by 16.8 dKH (which it obviously did not unless you added a huge amount of alk without the balanced amount of calcium additive). Folks blaming precipitation really need to look closer can just a reported drop in calcium.

2. Seachem reef fusion is not properly designed to be a 1:1 dosing product despite their claim. So do not expect exact 1:1 dosing to work long term.

 

[sawdavis]

I did get another test kit after I got the dramatic drop of Calcium the first time. But all subsequent tests have been at 260. KH did lower to 9 after a 10% water change. Do you recommend a significant water change rather than trying to just dose with Calcium and increasing Mg?

 

[Cfellini91]

I would recommend just bumping your calc up aside of your 2 parter. @Randy Holmes-Farley is the chemist and is his field of expertise. I would think checking your mag and if it’s at range buffer your calc over time.

 

[Greg P]

Are you testing your newly mixed water?
What Brand test kits are you using?

 

[sawdavis]

Really just piggybacking at this point since a lot of good advice was thrown your way.
I had a similar issue an unsettling amount of times when I first started in the hobby. Partially due to naïveté and in part due to the 2 part dosing. I am not a fan of the two part. It can work against you and easily over react parameters. I now use a varying array of products such asSeachems reef builder pH buffer and Seachem calcium. I haven’t needed an alk buffer. I maintain an alk average of 8, calcium at 440ppm and mag. 1300.


This is solid advice. Raise your mag, check again and do a 30-40% WC if needed. Try raiding mag again. Use a single part calcium supplement. Understanding the interaction of it all and problem solving is challenging. Here’s two articles that helped me a lot.
For chemistry knowledge

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-04/rhf/feature/index.php

and for troubleshooting

Chemistry And The Aquarium: Solving Calcium And Alkalinity Problems

I hope this article proves useful is understanding and dealing with the different types of calcium and alkalinity problems encountered by reef keepers. Once you get calcium and alkalinity under control, you are far along the road to having your tank chemistry optimal for its inhabitants.

www.advancedaquarist.com

Hi, I'm now at an impasse with my Calcium. I was able to get my KH down to 8 after doing a 20% water change and dosing only with Calcium Chloride. However, I have only been able to raise my Ca to 300 after several days of dosing only with Calcium Chloride (the Seachem's part 1 bottle of two part system) and my Mg level is off the charts (1500+). I noticed that the Seachem's Calcium Chloride also has Mg in it. Now I am afraid to add any more Calcium. What should I do?

 

[LARedstickreefer]

How much calcium chloride have you added? Going from 260ppm to 400ppm will require a lot of it.

Back when I was using the 2 part stuff, I needed about 30mL of it to go up 20ppm or so. It would take half the bottle that I had to go up 140ppm for my 43g system (34 after rocks and equipment). You have twice the water as me.

 

[Pntbll687]

Hi, I'm now at an impasse with my Calcium. I was able to get my KH down to 8 after doing a 20% water change and dosing only with Calcium Chloride. However, I have only been able to raise my Ca to 300 after several days of dosing only with Calcium Chloride (the Seachem's part 1 bottle of two part system) and my Mg level is off the charts (1500+). I noticed that the Seachem's Calcium Chloride also has Mg in it. Now I am afraid to add any more Calcium. What should I do?

Let's start with a couple questions
1) What levels are you going for on Alk, Ca, and Mg? I see alot of they are X now, but no mention of what you want them to be.
2) What test kits are you using? I only ask because you should be using the same test kit everytime. I don't want you to go out and buy new test kits, only to get different numbers and then totally confuse and frustrate yourself. Get your parameters consistent and in normal ranges with the test kits you have, then worry about the accuracy of the tests later.

2) What salt are you using? And what are the parameters of the salt when freshly mixed? If the Mg is on the higher end in the salt mix, then you may not need to dose Mg right now.

3) Why are you opposed to doing 100% water change? This seems like the easiest way to get parameters back into "normal" ranges. It's ok to say "I dont have the space or conatiners to do that". Telling someone to do 100% change is easy, but if they don't have the equipment to actually do it then it's useless.

 

[Unthinkable]

BRS had the right idea. Rather than attempt to compensate your current parameters it's probably easiest/best to establish a baseline with the salt mix you intend to use. I think you're taking the 100% water change too literal. They surely don't mean empty all water out of your system all at once. I'd recommend doing multiple larger water changes to get your numbers in line.

Start with a 50% change or whatever amount your mixing container holds, test your parameters and go from there. If you buy your saltwater from your LFS this could be more of a hassle/issue/expense. This may be the time to think about a RO/DI unit and make your own if you can.

Your refugium inhabitants are resilient, water changes won't kill them. you will likely remove/kill more when you harvest your macro algae than from water changes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I will be far cheaper to add calcium chloride than to fix this problem than with water changes.

 

[Tamberav]

Hi, I'm now at an impasse with my Calcium. I was able to get my KH down to 8 after doing a 20% water change and dosing only with Calcium Chloride. However, I have only been able to raise my Ca to 300 after several days of dosing only with Calcium Chloride (the Seachem's part 1 bottle of two part system) and my Mg level is off the charts (1500+). I noticed that the Seachem's Calcium Chloride also has Mg in it. Now I am afraid to add any more Calcium. What should I do?

You could just buy calcium that doesn't include Mg in it like the BRS stuff. FYI, You will need to add a lot.

 

[sawdavis]

How much calcium chloride have you added? Going from 260ppm to 400ppm will require a lot of it.

Back when I was using the 2 part stuff, I needed about 30mL of it to go up 20ppm or so. It would take half the bottle that I had to go up 140ppm for my 43g system (34 after rocks and equipment). You have twice the water as me.
I added 12.5 ml per day for five days. It went from 280 to 300 after first dose and has not budged since then.