Does anyone do it? Seriously, do they?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

In a world where we ought to be smart enough to require evidence of something, does ANY manufacturer or supplier of reef aquarium additives actually provide evidence that the product does what it claims?

I don't mean simple ingredient claims such as contains (iron, vanadium, magnesium, etc) which is mostly meaningless without numbers (a pinch of dried ocean water meets that claim for any element), or even those with numbers (which themselves have even been wrong in some cases), but rather the more complex claims that really jazz up reefers, but for which no evidence is ever shown.

Here's a few real examples:

for intense coloration of coral
Stimulates and Optimizes Coral Growth
enhance the growth and coloration of corals
help with growth, coloration, and vitality
the end result is stronger, healthier and more colorful corals.
promotes the pink colors in corals
production of the purple/blue pigments in the soft tissue of corals.
may have a positive effect on the color of corals.
maintaining Bromide at appropriate levels is very beneficial for coral coloration and growth

The list goes on and on. It's like an arms race about supplements.

Here's what I imagine happens...

Company X claims purples are boosted by their concoction of elements.
Company Y thinks that if they don't make similar claims, who would buy it? What colors should we claim that no one else does? Hmmm. Soemthing they may have already and can look at and imagine it is getting better. Don't want a lot of returns...

 

[Lebowski_]

There's another step after that Randy.

Company X and Y both find an influential reefer with a beautiful reef and sponser them to spread the word on forums and instagram, and thousands of consumers suddenly feel like they NEED that product.

Still seems like good lighting, good flow, and some maturity are the main ingredients of the nicest tanks I see on here.

 

[Reefer Matt]

Snake Oil. The reefing industry is full of it. I think it has to do with preying on people's unwillingness to be patient, and promise quicker and better results by dumping in a bottle of liquid.

 

[Sump Crab]

Like I said before, a lot of people put wacky stuff in their tanks lol

 

[paragrouper]

This is standard marketing noise found in many commercial sectors. I’m sure you already suspect this, but the data you seek would not help them sell their wares.

 

[Dan_P]

In a world where we ought to be smart enough to require evidence of something, does ANY manufacturer or supplier of reef aquarium additives actually provide evidence that the product does what it claims?

I have to challenge that the average ”we” are smart enough to require evidence.

“We” are not sufficiently trained or disciplined enough to be skeptical of advertising claims. ”We” just love to believe. Believing requires so much less energy than questioning. Also, “we” firmly believe in miracles, that their is an easy way out, and that human supplements actually do something.

I will up the ante here. More than 80% of the claims made about any hobby product are BS. The other 20% or less might have an element of truth.

 

[Mathew0]

I'd be happy to know why certain corals start to recede, stay closed, and slowly die off.

 

[workhz]

Are you expecting them to state ‘this will do nothing at best or crash your system at worst but please buy this since our bottle is more colorful and has more adjectives than the competition’?

 

[Miami Reef]

(a pinch of dried ocean water meats that claim

I thought you said dried ocean-water meat…like actual meat that was dried in ocean water.

 

[Borat]

Hey Randy.. I had a similar thinking about trace element additives - if corals need trace elements for their flesh, surely an easy way to prove that is to run spectral analysis on a piece of coral flesh (but for some mysterious reasons quote "no-one actually did that")?
And if they don't need it for flesh - but it's deposited through calcification, then we really shouldn't care and it's a pure waste?

And if trace elements are actually consumed - where do they stay (again, only in coral soft tissues or in coral skeletons)?

When I refer to trace elements, I don't mean minor elements (e.g. potassium, chelated iron or chelated iodine) - more like exotic things, uranium, strontium, berilium, boratium etc..

 

[thatmanMIKEson]

you just gotta believe!!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I thought you said dried ocean-water meat…like actual meat that was dried in ocean water.

lol

That would too, like ocean jerky. One of my daughters eats various fish jerky things lol

But no, just a typo. lol

 

[jeffww]

Saw a company offer two bottles of trace elements: one for increasing "greens and blues" and the other for "reds and purples". Made me not trust any of their products at all when they make that crap up.

 

[LRT]

Because you just can't bottle keeping things simple, good husbandry, stable params and common sense.

 

[Miami Reef]

One of my daughters eats various fish jerky things lol

It’s not Savannah, is it? lol

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It’s not Savannah, is it? lol

lol

No, my pH article helping daughter is a vegetarian.

 

[areefer01]

In a world where we ought to be smart enough to require evidence of something, does ANY manufacturer or supplier of reef aquarium additives actually provide evidence that the product does what it claims?

I don't mean simple ingredient claims such as contains (iron, vanadium, magnesium, etc) which is mostly meaningless without numbers (a pinch of dried ocean water meets that claim for any element), or even those with numbers (which themselves have even been wrong in some cases), but rather the more complex claims that really jazz up reefers, but for which no evidence is ever shown.

Here's a few real examples:

for intense coloration of coral
Stimulates and Optimizes Coral Growth
enhance the growth and coloration of corals
help with growth, coloration, and vitality
the end result is stronger, healthier and more colorful corals.
promotes the pink colors in corals
production of the purple/blue pigments in the soft tissue of corals.
may have a positive effect on the color of corals.
maintaining Bromide at appropriate levels is very beneficial for coral coloration and growth

The list goes on and on. It's like an arms race about supplements.

Here's what I imagine happens...

Company X claims purples are boosted by their concoction of elements.
Company Y thinks that if they don't make similar claims, who would buy it? What colors should we claim that no one else does? Hmmm. Soemthing they may have already and can look at and imagine it is getting better. Don't want a lot of returns...

Maybe a follow up question from a comment or to exchanged a couple of days back. But to your opening statement you are more or less correct. Not that you are seeking justification.

Most hobbies have this issue but some are more cut and dry with regards to a BS filter. What skill saw is best may not be proper but there is no debating the skill saw blade and its finishing cut. Try as we might with say lighting there is so much more going on with the corals health than light we can't say A is better than B. Yes, light is key but what about everything else? Most arm chair generals on here or on social media have no way to state one is better than the other outside of our personal bias. UV is a must - but is it?

99% of us are not trained in marine biology let alone science. Somethings we can summarize or get from some fellows such as yourself but other things we can't. Some we just want to believe in but even then maybe it isn't a right thing to do today (eDNA / Microbiome testing for example).

Social media platform of choice, or search engines have become the go to source of information whereas with the older guard we used books, reef clubs, sometimes a convention, and a sprinkle of USENET.

It is a great question not that you asked. Hope your day is going well.

 

[Miami Reef]

lol

No, my pH article helping daughter is a vegetarian.

Hey! How did you know I knew her name from that article?

Thanks for the extra information. I’ll store it in my brain collection of Randy-Trivia.

 

[vetteguy53081]

In a world where we ought to be smart enough to require evidence of something, does ANY manufacturer or supplier of reef aquarium additives actually provide evidence that the product does what it claims?

I don't mean simple ingredient claims such as contains (iron, vanadium, magnesium, etc) which is mostly meaningless without numbers (a pinch of dried ocean water meets that claim for any element), or even those with numbers (which themselves have even been wrong in some cases), but rather the more complex claims that really jazz up reefers, but for which no evidence is ever shown.

Here's a few real examples:

for intense coloration of coral
Stimulates and Optimizes Coral Growth
enhance the growth and coloration of corals
help with growth, coloration, and vitality
the end result is stronger, healthier and more colorful corals.
promotes the pink colors in corals
production of the purple/blue pigments in the soft tissue of corals.
may have a positive effect on the color of corals.
maintaining Bromide at appropriate levels is very beneficial for coral coloration and growth

The list goes on and on. It's like an arms race about supplements.

Here's what I imagine happens...

Company X claims purples are boosted by their concoction of elements.
Company Y thinks that if they don't make similar claims, who would buy it? What colors should we claim that no one else does? Hmmm. Soemthing they may have already and can look at and imagine it is getting better. Don't want a lot of returns...

Very good point.
One claims to remove ammonia
another- destroys algae upon application
Instant fish additives for seeding a tank in 10 minutes
Another reduces stress

And the list goes on

 

[Enderg60]

Its actually very simply. If you cant prove the product DOESNT do it, they are not liable for false advertising. Are you going to foot the cost to prove it doesnt work?