Does osmotic shock cause physical damage in an organism?

[Dom]

A few months ago, one of my systems developed a drip. Overnight, my salinity dropped from 35ppt to 20ppt, which is the result of the ATO compensating for the loss of salt water.

In this tank are a pair of clownfish along with a rock that has two Anemones.

When I found the tank the next morning, the Anemones looked like two pieces of chewed bubble gum. I made the corrections and then raised the salinity back to 35ppt over the course of 4 days.

One Anemone has bounced back but the other looks like an airport windsock on a calm day. It is NOT dead.

I'm wondering why the second Anemone hasn't bounced back. Could it be that it was damaged in some way?

Thank you,
Dom

 

[crazyfishmom]

Osmotic stress can definitely cause physical harm to a variety of organisms and anemones which inflate and deflate so easily I would imagine would be incredibly sensitive to such shock. As you mentioned, it is still alive which is amazing. If it's still alive, I would wait a few days and see what happens. Sounds like there's a shot it'll still recover.

 

[AC1211]

Same nem species as well?

Odds are one nem just got the worst of the stress.

 

[Dom]

Osmotic stress can definitely cause physical harm to a variety of organisms and anemones which inflate and deflate so easily I would imagine would be incredibly sensitive to such shock. As you mentioned, it is still alive which is amazing. If it's still alive, I would wait a few days and see what happens. Sounds like there's a shot it'll still recover.

It has been months since this happened.

 

[Dom]

@OrionN - Hoping you can give some feedback based on your experience.

 

[OrionN]

Osmotic shock can defiantly kill animals. That is the basis for FWD as treatment. The smaller the animal the more vulnerable. Doing down in salinity will cause cell swelling and cell rupture.

 

[Dom]

Osmotic shock can defiantly kill animals. That is the basis for FWD as treatment. The smaller the animal the more vulnerable. Doing down in salinity will cause cell swelling and cell rupture.

So I made the salinity correction on March 4th, 2024. This particular anemone hasn't bounced back, but it isn't dead.

In your experience, what is the likelihood of this anemone bouncing back?

 

[OrionN]

What species of anemone is it? Sometime they get infected with organism when they’re sick and stressed.
Consider treat him with medication. It it have been months I don’t think (my guess is anyway) it is directly related to the osmotic shock. The shock can cause your tank to be unstable and not optimal orbit can cause subsequent illness to the anemone.

 

[Formulator]

I have had anemones match your metaphor of “deflated windsock on a calm day” for several months and then randomly bounce back. They are pretty resilient animals in my experience. I wouldn’t give up on it. Despite warnings I have seen on these forums about dead anemones polluting or nuking tanks, that’s never been my experience and a good CUC usually takes care of it. If it was me I would just let it go until it either rebounds or dies.

 

[OrionN]

^^^agree especially about nuking a tank^^^^

 

[GARRIGA]

If the shock happened suddenly then why not fix it suddenly? Is there benefit to going slow because the correction won't fix the damage already done and one hoping to prevent new damage?

 

[Dom]

What species of anemone is it? Sometime they get infected with organism when they’re sick and stressed.
Consider treat him with medication. It it have been months I don’t think (my guess is anyway) it is directly related to the osmotic shock. The shock can cause your tank to be unstable and not optimal orbit can cause subsequent illness to the anemone.

Just your garden-variety long tentacle anemone. I saw them in a tank at a LFS 13 months ago and the owner offered both to me for $35.00! So I took them.

Are you suggesting the Anemone may have developed an infection, secondary to the stress of the salinity drop?

These are the Anemones before the drop in salinity:

And this is after the salinity drop (which has since been corrected - 3/4/24).

 

[Dom]

I have had anemones match your metaphor of “deflated windsock on a calm day” for several months and then randomly bounce back. They are pretty resilient animals in my experience. I wouldn’t give up on it. Despite warnings I have seen on these forums about dead anemones polluting or nuking tanks, that’s never been my experience and a good CUC usually takes care of it. If it was me I would just let it go until it either rebounds or dies.

Yes, I agree. And it is what I have been doing. But as I mentioned earlier, the salinity issue was corrected since March 4th, but still no improvement.

But I think you're right; as long as it isn't dead, what harm cam come from waiting it out?

 

[Dom]

If the shock happened suddenly then why not fix it suddenly? Is there benefit to going slow because the correction won't fix the damage already done and one hoping to prevent new damage?

The idea is that the sudden change in salinity has caused big stress. This Anemone isn't happy right now. Can you imagine how the additional stress from a quick rebound in salinity would have added to the stress?

I'm a procrastinator by nature, which makes me look patient in the hobby. I'll wait it out, but thank you for the input!

 

[GARRIGA]

The idea is that the sudden change in salinity has caused big stress. This Anemone isn't happy right now. Can you imagine how the additional stress from a quick rebound in salinity would have added to the stress?

I'm a procrastinator by nature, which makes me look patient in the hobby. I'll wait it out, but thank you for the input!

I get that but is there evidence the damage from the salinity drop permanent to the point getting it corrected quickly isn’t causing more damage as it’s forced to remain in inadequate salinity levels longer. No clue and why I ask. Hobby too much based on anecdotal dogma and sometimes I try being practical in that nature isn’t often slow about certain things such as heavy rain in shallow water possibly dropping salinity and yet as quick as it came it gets mixed and salinity quickly rises. Might be better served just fixing it once discovered. Just thoughts. Seeking knowledge vs directing path taken.

 

[Dom]

I get that but is there evidence the damage from the salinity drop permanent to the point getting it corrected quickly isn’t causing more damage as it’s forced to remain in inadequate salinity levels longer. No clue and why I ask. Hobby too much based on anecdotal dogma and sometimes I try being practical in that nature isn’t often slow about certain things such as heavy rain in shallow water possibly dropping salinity and yet as quick as it came it gets mixed and salinity quickly rises. Might be better served just fixing it once discovered. Just thoughts. Seeking knowledge vs directing path taken.

I see your point. You are suggesting that you can limit the damage from hypo salinity by getting it back to where it needs to be as quickly as possible. Where as, my approach allowed the anemone to stay in that environment longer, thereby allowing damage to continue.

This is a good question. And by extension, I'd like to know if any damage that resulted from the hypo salinity "heals".

I'm sorry that I don't know the answer to your question.

 

[OrionN]

I would try to feed him and protect him from other animal pull the food out.

 

[GARRIGA]

I see your point. You are suggesting that you can limit the damage from hypo salinity by getting it back to where it needs to be as quickly as possible. Where as, my approach allowed the anemone to stay in that environment longer, thereby allowing damage to continue.

This is a good question. And by extension, I'd like to know if any damage that resulted from the hypo salinity "heals".

I'm sorry that I don't know the answer to your question.

In the 90s it became customary to adjust pH of new water for new fish arrivals from overseas then slowly adjusted up. Now fish are often dumped immediately as it seems better to just get them into best water fast. Granted fish anatomy vastly different than fish but makes wonder how do corals on shallow flats handle all the changes when storms pass.

Take a heat event for example. Reefs will bleach unless a cooling effect proceeds. That sudden rise and drop likely some form of system shock. Yet getting them to normal temperature allows requisition of expels zooxanthella before the colony is lost.

Dips in pesticide can’t be fun and yet somehow they survive although duration is short but yet if damage was to occur it likely did my thinking. Meaning duration in inadequate conditions what might be the concern vs the fact it occurred.

Just thinking out loud. No clue either way.

 

[ctfish]

In the 90s it became customary to adjust pH of new water for new fish arrivals from overseas then slowly adjusted up. Now fish are often dumped immediately as it seems better to just get them into best water fast. Granted fish anatomy vastly different than fish but makes wonder how do corals on shallow flats handle all the changes when storms pass.

Take a heat event for example. Reefs will bleach unless a cooling effect proceeds. That sudden rise and drop likely some form of system shock. Yet getting them to normal temperature allows requisition of expels zooxanthella before the colony is lost.

Dips in pesticide can’t be fun and yet somehow they survive although duration is short but yet if damage was to occur it likely did my thinking. Meaning duration in inadequate conditions what might be the concern vs the fact it occurred.

Just thinking out loud. No clue either way.

You bring up some great points and I’d be very interested in a longer term study/experiment into this with different types of coral (LPS vs SPS vs euphyllia, leather, mushroom, zoas, etc.).

Being a fisherman my whole life down here in FL I’ve seen huge swings in temp, nutrient levels, salinity, etc that corrects itself almost as soon or sooner than it happened.

Granted, I haven’t dove to the reefs to see how the corals react to these changes but that fact that the reefs (especially the shallow reefs near biscayne bay and Ft. Myers are still growing, intact and healthy (other than some damage, mostly bleaching during long term high temps in recent years) seem to prove your suspicions about returning to normal parameters asap to be more positive than allowing them to remain at inadequate parameters for a longer amount of time.

I would imagine the corals would stay closed for a few days after both big swings but bounce back rather quickly. With all the big swings we have during hurricanes (storm surge brings in a big load of nutrients from deeper water 3x-10x what is brought in on a normal tide cycle and hyposalinity from rainfall) and then a return to normal-ish parameters usually inside 24-36 hours due to the tides bringing out the higher nutrient and polluted water from runoff from beach areas and coastal cities and bringing in cleaner water with normal nutrient levels it really surprises me that we have good healthy reefs in less than 30’ of water.

Like I said before, you brought up some excellent points and I’d love to see any further research into this subject if someone or an organization with more resources than I would be willing to work on it in the future.

 

[BeanAnimal]

In the 90s it became customary to adjust pH of new water for new fish arrivals from overseas then slowly adjusted up. Now fish are often dumped immediately as it seems better to just get them into best water fast. Granted fish anatomy vastly different than fish but makes wonder how do corals on shallow flats handle all the changes when storms pass.

Take a heat event for example. Reefs will bleach unless a cooling effect proceeds. That sudden rise and drop likely some form of system shock. Yet getting them to normal temperature allows requisition of expels zooxanthella before the colony is lost.

Dips in pesticide can’t be fun and yet somehow they survive although duration is short but yet if damage was to occur it likely did my thinking. Meaning duration in inadequate conditions what might be the concern vs the fact it occurred.

Just thinking out loud. No clue either way.

We can give examples on the other side as well..

Dehydration, hypothermia, etc all require gradual return to normal. I think in the sense of salinity, no rapid changes are good and depending on the extent of the accidental drop (or rise) getting it back into the non lethal zone quickly is not a bad idea but adding more stress due to more rapid changes may compound issues.

I would imagine that some research has been done somewhere on the subject in context to fish and salinity.