Don't start with kalkwasser?

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Trever

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Lots of information says to use two part to bring levels up desired point, then maintain with kalkwasser.

I don't understand this. Why can't I VERY VERY slowly start adding kalkwasser supernatant and thus very slowly bring levels up, then maintain with the kalk? What am I missing?

I get that maintaince and getting to the desired point may not be the same dosing of kalk, but I don't see why I can't just use kalk. But lots of sources say NOT to use kalk for getting to the right level.
 
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Lots of information says to use two part to bring levels up desired point, then maintain with kalkwasser.

I don't understand this. Why can't I VERY VERY slowly start adding kalkwasser supernatant and thus very slowly bring levels up, then maintain with the kalk? What am I missing?

I get that maintaince and getting to the desired point may not be the same dosing of kalk, but I don't see why I can't just use kalk.
You can and I have. It’s probably even a good idea to maintain your desired pH early on in the tanks journey as different bacteria prefer different pH ranges, apparently. You gotta be competent with maintaining appropriate pH though. If your Calcium and Alk get out of whack, add the appropriate correction.
 

HuduVudu

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You can check this out.

 

SMSREEF

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I think what they are saying is do not use Kalk to increase your alkalinity in a similar way you do 2 part (dosing large amount at once) because the pH increase would be too much.

But if what you are doing is setting Kalk up on a doser to do it slowly over days, there likely would be no issues.

I dosed Kalk at night with a BRS doser for years. When I had to make bigger changes, I did use 2 part.
 

Mical

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I have also in the past, but found using 2 part let me fine tune my levels. I think the premise of using kalk and raising as you go is because most folks dose kalk via their ATOs, and in doing so your kalk dosing regiment would be based on evaporation.
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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You cannot raise calcium significantly with kalkwasser short term. You must use a calcium only supplement for that. Kalk will drive alk too high if you boost calcium. That is the only basis for the op question.
 
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Trever

Trever

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You cannot raise calcium significantly with kalkwasser short term. You must use a calcium only supplement for that. Kalk will drive alk too high if you boost calcium. That is the only basis for the op question.

Then I don't understand how kalkwasser is a "balanced" solution for maintaining alk and calcium, because this makes it sound like going from no kalk to some amount of kalk will shift things out of whack no matter how you go from zero to some (however small) amount.

If you're saying that for a tank with ok alk but too low calc, the kalk can't fix that as I understand it, and thus you'd need to start with adding calcium. But I wasn't supposing that, so I'm even more confused.
 

HuduVudu

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Then I don't understand how kalkwasser is a "balanced" solution for maintaining alk and calcium, because this makes it sound like going from no kalk to some amount of kalk will shift things out of whack no matter how you go from zero to some (however small) amount.

If you're saying that for a tank with ok alk but too low calc, the kalk can't fix that as I understand it, and thus you'd need to start with adding calcium. But I wasn't supposing that, so I'm even more confused.
Not to put words in Randy's mouth but when it is said that Kalkwasser is balanced it means that it is going in at a chemically at a 1:1 ratio.

This doesn't mean that your tank uses it that way, it just means that you don't have a lot of control over the amount of the individual elements.
 
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Trever

Trever

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Correct, going in at a 1:1 ratio. I can see how that would limit how much you could raise calcium, if an increase in X in calcium is something a tank can tolerate/use, whereas increasing alk the same amount (X) is unacceptable.

So I guess what is being said is that two part gives the ability to raise independently, the particular chemical relevance being that the X increment thing I just said is a truth that will weigh against you in many situations?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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If you mean kalkwasser in as in the German for it i.e. calcium hydroxide in freshwater you are correct.
If you mean kalkwasser as calcium hydroxide then this isn't correct.

My statement is totally accurate.


If you try to boost calcium by 40 ppm, alk will skyrocket a rise of 5.8 dKH.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Correct, going in at a 1:1 ratio. I can see how that would limit how much you could raise calcium, if an increase in X in calcium is something a tank can tolerate/use, whereas increasing alk the same amount (X) is unacceptable.

So I guess what is being said is that two part gives the ability to raise independently, the particular chemical relevance being that the X increment thing I just said is a truth that will weigh against you in many situations?

Correct, limewater (Kalkwasser is the German word for it) allows no independent adjustment, and is typically unsuitable for a substantial calcium boost (although it can be ok for a substantial alk boost (Done slowly enough) because the calcium rise associated with it is not that excessive).
 

HuduVudu

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Correct, going in at a 1:1 ratio. I can see how that would limit how much you could raise calcium, if an increase in X in calcium is something a tank can tolerate/use, whereas increasing alk the same amount (X) is unacceptable.

So I guess what is being said is that two part gives the ability to raise independently, the particular chemical relevance being that the X increment thing I just said is a truth that will weigh against you in many situations?
Please read the article I posted it discusses a different way to accomplish calcium hydroxide dosing (I am using calcium hydroxide and not kalkwasser on purpose). It also gives an avenue to get some control over calcium and carbonate independently.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Using calcium hydroxide in fresh water?

Using calcium hydroxide in any fashion, it adds 2.8 dKH per 20 ppm calcium, hence the problem using it for a 40 Ppm calcium boost.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Please read the article I posted it discusses a different way to accomplish calcium hydroxide dosing (I am using calcium hydroxide and not kalkwasser on purpose). It also gives an avenue to get some control over calcium and carbonate independently.

No, it doesn’t change the ratio of calcium to alk added.
 

HuduVudu

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No it doesn’t.
Then why Randy is it working for me? I am currently using it as described in the article. Perhaps you could try to reproduce it to show it's failure instead of just saying it doesn't work.

EDIT: I can even provide an alternate method that allows you to dispense with the Soda Stream and just use bottled seltzer water, because this is how I originally tested it.
 

SMSREEF

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Here is a great article from RHF that helped me understand a little better about the Alk-calcium balance. To be honest though, I still do not have full grasp of all the info in it, which is why I find this chemistry forum so beneficial.

When Do Calcium and Alkalinity Demand Not Exactly Balance?
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Then why Randy is it working for me? I am currently using it as described in the article. Perhaps you could try to reproduce it to show it's failure instead of just saying it doesn't work.

EDIT: I can even provide an alternate method that allows you to dispense with the Soda Stream and just use bottled seltzer water, because this is how I originally tested it.

lol

if I told you I can see people walking on a planet orbiting alpha centauri using my birding binoculars, would you need to test that out before claiming it isn't true?

I have no idea exactly what you are claiming you can do with it.

Since I maintained my tank perfectly for 20 years using limewater (kalkwasser) alone, it is no surprise that you can do so by using it and also using CO2 (which mitigates the pH rise and allows more concentrated solutions but has not change in the amount of calcium realtive to alkalinity in it.
 
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