Doser Configuration Question

[jbmia]

Hi Guys,

I've been directly my questions to Rob so far since I'm using his hardware, but thought I'd toss this question out to the group...

I’m currently dosing kalk using a 12v dosing pump defined as ‘equipment’ with the equipment tied to a ‘minute’ timer that turns the pump on for 2 seconds each minute. I'm turning that 'equipment' on & off with 2 macro’s: 'doserTIMER_on' and 'doserTIMER_off'. These are then used as ph lowering/raising mechanisms to control pH as configured in the pH tab control section… This is working fine, but I can’t see the actual dosing events in the dashboard as if it were configured as an actual 'doser' instead of 'equipment' as it is now and it's kind of driving me crazy I can't actually use the dosing pump as a 'doser'... Here's the config:

Here's the 'equipment' config...

Here's the timer config...

Here are the on / off macro's...

Here's the pH tab control section...

I'm just winging it here with this configuration and it works fine.. keeping a stable pH over time.. but it's bothering me I can't see dosing pump turning on and off like I can see the heater as it's controlled by my temperature control settings...

Can someone recommend a similar configuration using the dosing pump configured as a 'doser' rather than 'equipment'?

When I configure a 'doser' and tie it to it's own 'doser_on' and 'doser_off' macros and attempt to use those as the lowering, raising mechanisms in the pH tab control section, it seems to trigger the doser, but the dosing pump runs continuously rather than turning off after my configured 2 seconds.. Here's my attempt at configuring this:

I would think the 'doser' would run for 2 seconds every minute if it were on.. correct?

Here's the timer config...

Here's the macro's I configured to turn the 'doser' on and off:

And here's the configured pH tab control section:

Again, with this control configuration, the doser is turned on when outside the thresholds, but it stays on... no bueno.

I also tried to configure the macro's to control the 'doser' directly rather than using a 'timer'...

Changing the pH tab control section to this:

But again, once the pH tab control setting is triggered, it just turns on the 'doser' and it doesn't turn off after the configured 2 seconds.

One other thing I'm confused about... Can someone explain the usage of the timer config when it comes to setting up a 'doser'? I'm confused by the action, (turn on/off), and then (turn back on/stay off) and the after x seconds functions... what is the goal of e.g., turning on a device on and then turning it back on (when presumably you didn't turn it off) after X seconds? I totally confused by the options here. It make sense with 'equipment' where the option is action (turn on) and then (turn back OFF) after 2 seconds, but with the doser you don't get that, you get this... again what is the point of turn on and then turn back on or turn on and stay off ??

Lastly, I firmly believe in the notion of RTFM before asking questions, but unless I totally missed a link somewhere, I don't think there is one.. just the links to the adafruit circuit builds which appear dated and incomplete when it comes to configuring these types of use cases. Not criticizing, it is what it is.. .

I'd appreciate any constructive feedback and criticism.

Thanks!

jb

Ignore these.. can't seem to delete them>>>

 

[Sral]

From my point of view the macro function „Turn-On“ and „Turn-Off“ seems a bit confusing and doesn’t always do what one would expect. I tried „Turning-On“ a simple light, but it did nothing. As far as I know there is no real manual. The closest thing is the API, which you can find at the bottom of the ReefPi webpage, although it is a bit barebone and doesn't explain anything.

@Ranjib The timer drop-down seems mislabeled for actuating a doser.
@jbmia Have you tried setting it to „Then turn on“ in the hopes that it actually turns it off ?

I'm also a bit confused with this part:

When I configure a 'doser' and tie it to it's own 'doser_on' and 'doser_off' macros and attempt to use those as the lowering, raising mechanisms in the pH tab control section, it seems to trigger the doser, but the dosing pump runs continuously rather than turning off after my configured 2 seconds.. Here's my attempt at configuring this:

I would think the 'doser' would run for 2 seconds every minute if it were on.. correct?

Here's the timer config...

Here's the macro's I configured to turn the 'doser' on and off:

Have you mixed up the pictures there ?
Because the timer switches a macro, not the doser.

 

[jbmia]

From my point of view the macro function „Turn-On“ and „Turn-Off“ seems a bit confusing and doesn’t always do what one would expect. I tried „Turning-On“ a simple light, but it did nothing. As far as I know there is no real manual. The closest thing is the API, which you can find at the bottom of the ReefPi webpage, although it is a bit barebone and doesn't explain anything.

@Ranjib The timer drop-down seems mislabeled for actuating a doser.
@jbmia Have you tried setting it to „Then turn on“ in the hopes that it actually turns it off ?

I'm also a bit confused with this part:

Have you mixed up the pictures there ?
Because the timer switches a macro, not the doser.

Thank you for replying Sral,

I think there was a mix up on that pic of the timer.. I added it after I edited the post and I think I mixed them up... that doesn't appear to be an issue though.

I think I found out why the 'doser' stays on... when you use a macro to activate the 'doser' directly it appears to turn on the hardware and ignore the inbuilt timer in the doser itself.. so if you want to turn the doser off, you need to build it into the macro:

turn on doser
wait 2 seconds
turn off doser

So if you tie the correctly built macro to the ph tab control as a raising mechanism it looks like it works fine..

jbmia@reef:/ $ journalctl -f | grep macro-subsystem
Feb 25 15:38:55 reef reef-pi[368]: 2023/02/25 15:38:55 macro-subsystem. Running: Dose Kalk 2s
Feb 25 15:38:55 reef reef-pi[368]: 2023/02/25 15:38:55 macro-subsystem: executing step:  doser id: 3  state: true
Feb 25 15:38:55 reef reef-pi[368]: 2023/02/25 15:38:55 macro-subsystem: executing step: sleep for 2 seconds
Feb 25 15:38:57 reef reef-pi[368]: 2023/02/25 15:38:57 macro-subsystem: executing step:  doser id: 3  state: false
Feb 25 15:38:57 reef reef-pi[368]: 2023/02/25 15:38:57 macro-subsystem. Finished: Dose Kalk 2s

here's my current ph tab control settings...

And here's the macro to run the kalk doser 2 seconds.. the macro will run based on the check frequency defined in the ph tab config...

There are still a couple things that are perplexing....

1. The timer turn on and then stay on or stay off question outlined above.. what's the logic or intended purpose behind that process?
2. Given that dosing is the most obvious way of controlling ph, why not allow 'doser' as an option in the 'control' drop down list (current option are 'nothing', 'macro', or 'equipment') so it can be used as a raising mechanism? The 'doser' function already has a timer built in and if manually turned on seems to run fine.. so it would seem obvious (at least to me) that you could use a ph 'doser" as the raising mechanism to 'control' pH..

   if ph < upper target,= doser on.. if ph > upper target = doser off.

If anyone wants to confirm this approach as best practice or define a better one, I'm happy to update a 'user guide' , best practices, or tips/tricks document if the project owner would provide a document (e.g., google doc) I could update.

Again, thanks for any comments, suggestions, or explanations.

jb

 

[jbmia]

Going back to one of @Sral questions to @Ranjib:

@Ranjib The timer drop-down seems mislabeled for actuating a doser.

Why include 'doser' as an option in the 'timer' sub-system (correct term?) if the 'doser' sub-system already includes a built in timer in each configured 'doser' instance?

 

[Sral]

Thank you for replying Sral,

I think there was a mix up on that pic of the timer.. I added it after I edited the post and I think I mixed them up... that doesn't appear to be an issue though.

I think I found out why the 'doser' stays on... when you use a macro to activate the 'doser' directly it appears to turn on the hardware and ignore the inbuilt timer in the doser itself.. so if you want to turn the doser off, you need to build it into the macro:

turn on doser
wait 2 seconds
turn off doser

So if you tie the correctly built macro to the ph tab control as a raising mechanism it looks like it works fine..

jbmia@reef:/ $ journalctl -f | grep macro-subsystem
Feb 25 15:38:55 reef reef-pi[368]: 2023/02/25 15:38:55 macro-subsystem. Running: Dose Kalk 2s
Feb 25 15:38:55 reef reef-pi[368]: 2023/02/25 15:38:55 macro-subsystem: executing step:  doser id: 3  state: true
Feb 25 15:38:55 reef reef-pi[368]: 2023/02/25 15:38:55 macro-subsystem: executing step: sleep for 2 seconds
Feb 25 15:38:57 reef reef-pi[368]: 2023/02/25 15:38:57 macro-subsystem: executing step:  doser id: 3  state: false
Feb 25 15:38:57 reef reef-pi[368]: 2023/02/25 15:38:57 macro-subsystem. Finished: Dose Kalk 2s

here's my current ph tab control settings...

And here's the macro to run the kalk doser 2 seconds.. the macro will run based on the check frequency defined in the ph tab config...

There are still a couple things that are perplexing....

1. The timer turn on and then stay on or stay off question outlined above.. what's the logic or intended purpose behind that process?
2. Given that dosing is the most obvious way of controlling ph, why not allow 'doser' as an option in the 'control' drop down list (current option are 'nothing', 'macro', or 'equipment') so it can be used as a raising mechanism? The 'doser' function already has a timer built in and if manually turned on seems to run fine.. so it would seem obvious (at least to me) that you could use a ph 'doser" as the raising mechanism to 'control' pH..

   if ph < upper target,= doser on.. if ph > upper target = doser off.

If anyone wants to confirm this approach as best practice or define a better one, I'm happy to update a 'user guide' , best practices, or tips/tricks document if the project owner would provide a document (e.g., google doc) I could update.

Again, thanks for any comments, suggestions, or explanations.

jb

1. I think that’s mislabeled @Ranjib
2. Very Good idea. That way One could also just use the existing hysteresis control to raise pH by enabling a doser and let the doser handle timing itself.

Going back to one of @Sral questions to @Ranjib:

Why include 'doser' as an option in the 'timer' sub-system (correct term?) if the 'doser' sub-system already includes a built in timer in each configured 'doser' instance?

I think it’s a good idea to give the user flexibility in making things work the way he wants. Regarding a timer switching a doser-equipment I do fully agree though. That’s a bit silly, but to me shows that the whole system (macros as well) needs a more clear distinction between „Turn On/Off“(associated Equipment) and „Enable/Disable“ (the Subsystem).