Dosing Magnesium (Seems like it drops way more than Alk or Cal)

Lavey29

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huh?

my 3 month old 40 breeder with a half dozen small SPS frags and 3-5 small LPS frags (all around an inch) consumes about 0.25 dKh per day. I’ve got no visible coralline growth and as they’re all relatively new (< 1 month) only 3 of my frags have noticeable growth.

if I left it go a week, it’d swing about 1.5 dKh. My 10% weekly water change only adds 0.8 dKh.

I went from dosing 5 ml/day of AF component 1, 2, 3 to dosing 30 mL/day in about 2 weeks. And rate of consumption has been increasing daily.
You're comparing apples to oranges
 
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Lavey29

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"majority consensus" means "made up" without data.


Water changes are a horrifyingly inefficient way to dose alkalinity. Dose what your tank needs. The early parts of the nitrogen cycle consume alkalinity.

A 3 month old reef tank can be a fully functioning reef tank if you stop doing things poorly. Like ignoring alkalinity usage.
Sorry but you are wrong. All tanks are different of course so what works for you may not be applicable to others. Water changes are still the foundation for successful reef tanks although advancements in chemical supplements have given more advanced reefers the ability to go longer without water changes or in some cases no water changes but any reefing forum you go on talks water changes first and foremost hence the majority consensus.
 

doubleshot00

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huh?

my 3 month old 40 breeder with a half dozen small SPS frags and 3-5 small LPS frags (all around an inch) consumes about 0.25 dKh per day. I’ve got no visible coralline growth and as they’re all relatively new (< 1 month) only 3 of my frags have noticeable growth.

if I left it go a week, it’d swing about 1.5 dKh. My 10% weekly water change only adds 0.8 dKh.

I went from dosing 5 ml/day of AF component 1, 2, 3 to dosing 30 mL/day in about 2 weeks. And rate of consumption has been increasing daily.
Not to be rude but did you even read @Lavey29 post? He didn’t say sps or 40gal tank. 5 gallons is a different animal than a 40gal.

A 5 gak tank with a 1.5 weeks WC using decent salt is all thats needed most likely.
 
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Willie Phillips

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You're comparing apples to oranges
I had the same problem until I found a solution for me I like to try different methods of doing something. I can't afford all that expensive equipment for reef. Do I dose by hand till was really hard to fine the perfect balance but I did. I have a well for water and a r/o system 4 stage. My well water changes ph depending on rain. Water is low ph 7.5. Anyway I have to add a buffer to get ph up. I make my water 20 gallons a week ahead. Now let's get to the answer I found that worked for me. Reef KALKWASSER it maintains calcium. Once I got it under control and kept up with the the trace. Elements that was hard. What worked was keeping the calcium levels on par. Ppm. 430. The KALKWASSER made my tank stable. Do everything else is good . One gallon last about three weeks . I stopped chasing trace Elements to. I let sea-lab #28 do that for me. No problems I learned to take care of water not fish now I can sit back and enjoy my tank. Please don't commit on sea lab. Everybody has a different view on it. It works for me. Been keeping fish since 1967. Keep your negative responses to yourself!
 

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Not to be rude but did you even read @Lavey29 post? He didn’t say sps or 40gal tank. 5 gallons is a different animal than a 40gal.

A 5 gak tank with a 1.5 weeks WC using decent salt is all thats needed most likely.

It takes far less consumption in a 5g nano than it does in a 40 breeder to move parameters a given amount. Tank size is irrelevant. It's about consumption vs total available elements. And there is far less availability in 5g of water than there is in 40g. Meaning, it takes less coral in 5g to shift a given parameter by x amount than it does in 40g.

I was merely pointing out that I have a light load in my tank given the volume available and I need to dose.



Again -- the data should drive the decision. There is no mystery here -- it's all easily verifiable and calculable. If the data and analysis shows that dosing is necessary -- "most likely" and "consensus" and "IMO" don't mean a thing.
 

Willie Phillips

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I had the same problem until I found a solution for me I like to try different methods of doing something. I can't afford all that expensive equipment for reef. Do I dose by hand till was really hard to fine the perfect balance but I did. I have a well for water and a r/o system 4 stage. My well water changes ph depending on rain. Water is low ph 7.5. Anyway I have to add a buffer to get ph up. I make my water 20 gallons a week ahead. Now let's get to the answer I found that worked for me. Reef KALKWASSER it maintains calcium. Once I got it under control and kept up with the the trace. Elements that was hard. What worked was keeping the calcium levels on par. Ppm. 430. The KALKWASSER made my tank stable. Do everything else is good . One gallon last about three weeks . I stopped chasing trace Elements to. I let sea-lab #28 do that for me. No problems I learned to take care of water not fish now I can sit back and enjoy my tank. Please don't commit on sea lab. Everybody has a different view on it. It works for me. Been keeping fish since 1967. Keep your negative responses to yourself!
Whatever it will stable his aquarium.
 
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Willie Phillips

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Doesn't matter whether it's LPS, SPS, coralline, or the nitrogen process. Consumption is consumption.
Right but keeping them stable is were we want to keep them. Before you people jump in. What I said is this kept all of My trace on par. That means mag,alkaline and everything else at a constant level. Even before water changes. DA you don't know everything. I don't know everything but I know what worked. Been keeping fish before you knew who you was. Since 1967 and I don't know everything but I can help who needs help and be open minded about it. So Mr I don't need this group I'm passionate about my fish keeping.
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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I had the same problem until I found a solution for me I like to try different methods of doing something. I can't afford all that expensive equipment for reef. Do I dose by hand till was really hard to fine the perfect balance but I did. I have a well for water and a r/o system 4 stage. My well water changes ph depending on rain. Water is low ph 7.5. Anyway I have to add a buffer to get ph up. I make my water 20 gallons a week ahead. Now let's get to the answer I found that worked for me. Reef KALKWASSER it maintains calcium. Once I got it under control and kept up with the the trace. Elements that was hard. What worked was keeping the calcium levels on par. Ppm. 430. The KALKWASSER made my tank stable. Do everything else is good . One gallon last about three weeks . I stopped chasing trace Elements to. I let sea-lab #28 do that for me. No problems I learned to take care of water not fish now I can sit back and enjoy my tank. Please don't commit on sea lab. Everybody has a different view on it. It works for me. Been keeping fish since 1967. Keep your negative responses to yourself!

You add a buffer to top off water? That will add alk and not benefit the pH much.

FWIW, adding pure water at pH 7.0 to seawater at pH 8.20 will actually raise the pH of the seawater above pH 8.20, so one cannot always judge pH effects by the observed values.

Here's my comment on the pH of RO/DI effluent:

Reverse Osmosis/Deionization Systems to Purify Tap Water for Reef Aquaria by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

Final Effluent pH

Aside from the issues discussed above concerning the effluent’s pH when the DI resin becomes depleted, the final pH coming out of an RO/DI system should not significantly concern reef aquarists. Many aquarists with low pH problems have asked, for example, if their aquarium’s low pH may be caused by their replacing evaporated water with RO/DI water that they measure to have a pH below 7. In short, the answer is no, this is not a cause of low pH nor is it something to be generally concerned about, for the following reasons:

1. The pH of totally pure water is around 7 (with the exact value depending on temperature). As carbon dioxide from the atmosphere enters the water, the pH drops into the 6’s and even into the 5’s, depending on the amount of CO2. At saturation with the level of CO2 in normal (outside) air, the pH would be about 5.66. Indoor air often has even more CO2, and the pH can drop a bit lower, into the 5’s. Consequently, the pH of highly purified water coming from an RO/DI unit is expected to be in the pH 5-7 range.

2. The pH of highly purified water is not accurately measured by test kits, or by pH meters. There are several different reasons for this, including the fact that highly purified water has very little buffering capacity, so its pH is easily changed. Even the acidity or basicity of a pH test kit’s indicator dye is enough to alter pure water’s measured pH. As for pH meters, the probes themselves do not function well in the very low ionic strength of pure freshwater, and trace impurities on them can swing the pH around quite a bit.

3. The pH of the combination of two solutions does not necessarily reflect the average (not even a weighted average) of their two pH values. The final pH of a mixture may actually not even be between the pH’s of the two solutions when combined. Consequently, adding pH 7 pure water to pH 8.2 seawater will not even result in a pH below 8.2, but will be higher than 8.2 (for complex reasons relating to the acidity of bicarbonate in seawater vs. freshwater).
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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I let sea-lab #28 do that for me. No problems I learned to take care of water not fish now I can sit back and enjoy my tank. Please don't commit on sea lab.

I do have to comment because in a chemistry-based forum, I want to ensure we are fact based.

While it's my opinion that it is not a good idea, it's a simple fact that it cannot do what it claims.

Perhaps you are successful because of it, or in spite of it.
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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Right but keeping them stable is were we want to keep them. Before you people jump in. What I said is this kept all of My trace on par. That means mag,alkaline and everything else at a constant level. Even before water changes. DA you don't know everything. I don't know everything but I know what worked. Been keeping fish before you knew who you was. Since 1967 and I don't know everything but I can help who needs help and be open minded about it. So Mr I don't need this group I'm passionate about my fish keeping.

Again, a simple clarification so that folks do not get confused about your claims. Magnesium and calcium and alkalinity are not trace elements.

Which elements are kept at a constant level, and how do you monitor them?
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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It works for me what part you don't get.

I am happy to discuss the science of what you are doing.

A successful tank never means everything being done is useful or appropriate.
Some of your practices seem sub optimal and I would not want others to think they should be emulated.
 

Willie Phillips

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I am happy to discuss the science of what you are doing.

A successful tank never means everything being done is useful or appropriate.
Some of your practices seem sub optimal and I would not want others to think they should be emulated.
I said for the last ⏲️ time. I'm not telling anyone what to do. I said this works for me
 

Randy Holmes-Farley

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GET ONE DOG! I'M 67 I WAS DOING THIS BEFORE YOU WERE EVEN THOUGH OF ! SIT BACK LIKE I DO AND LEARN SOMETHING DOG.

Lol

I’m in my 60’s as well. That doesn’t make either of us right, or wrong, just old.
 
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Lavey29

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Doesn't matter whether it's LPS, SPS, coralline, or the nitrification process. Consumption is consumption.
Uh no, there are different levels of consumption. Softs and LPS use less then full stock of SPS and add in coraline and you have even more. The OP has a 3 month old 5 gallon tank with a few corals. You have a fully stocked 40 gallon tank so you are comparing apples to oranges as far as consumption and dosing requirements.
 

gbru316

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Uh no, there are different levels of consumption. Softs and LPS use less then full stock of SPS and add in coraline and you have even more. The OP has a 3 month old 5 gallon tank with a few corals. You have a fully stocked 40 gallon tank so you are comparing apples to oranges as far as consumption and dosing requirements

My tank is neither fully stocked, nor is it growing coralline.


Bigger picture. It takes less coral to have the same impact on a 5g tank as it does on a 40g tank. Again. If the data shows dosing is warranted, then it is. That's not up for debate.
 

Lavey29

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My tank is neither fully stocked, nor is it growing coralline.


Bigger picture. It takes less coral to have the same impact on a 5g tank as it does on a 40g tank. Again. If the data shows dosing is warranted, then it is. That's not up for debate.
Each tank is unique. If your approach works for you then use it. I'll stick with the majority consensus approach that works for me in my tank.

Also keep in mind the OP was originally focused on magnesium. I'm sure you know that reduces significantly less then alk and calcium correct? Which is why simple water changes in a tiny tank suffice.
 
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Hello Reefers,

I am still observing my Mag, Alk, Cal.

Yes, my nano is 5 gallons.

There are many ways to start a reef tank. If I used dead rock/sand I probably would leave it empty with lights off 4 months or more. I used live sand and cured live rock and dosed ammonia to fishless cycle. No livestock and no lights for one month. At the end of that time there was already coralline algae growing on the glass, tiny little spots. I added my one fish and clean up crew and checked for a second cycle, which there was none. The amount of ammonia I was adding was way more that the one fish, clean up crew and added food combined. Four months later and I’ve never had an ugly algae stage. Very tiny tiny patched of dino, but tons of coralline algae.

I added coral after 6 weeks, two weeks after my fish and clean up crew. It is stocked with mostly LPS. The only softies are on a zoanthid rock with one mushroom and a small colony of firework clove polyps for contrast. There are 16 LPS frags, a few have grown quite a bit. 1 open brain, 1 alveopora, 3 different candy cane, 8 different micro lord, 1 micro pacifica, 1 scolymia, 1 (I forget the name, looks like a scolymia, but it is very aggressive and needs to go).

My goal was to maintain stable Mag at 1350, Alk at 9, Cal at 440.

For a couple of weeks I added 0.6 Alk and 0.38 Cal daily. By the end of the week, before water change, my Alk dropped to 8 and my Cal to 430.

I then upped my daily Alk to 0.8 and Cal to 0.4. At the end of the week my Alk was 8.6 and Cal was 440.

This week I will dose Alk at 1.0 and Cal at 0.4.

I still have the original issue with my Mag.

Red Sea Blue Bucket test at 1280. I was dosing Red Sea Magnesium to bring it up to 1350 before adding to tank in water changes. I had done the same to my tank when I started this threat. Both tank water and storage water should have been 1350 Mag.

What I do not understand is how I can raise the Mag to 1350, but a few days later it drops to 1280. The test kit is the same and there is room for error, but this has been consistent.

I stopped chasing the Mag ghost though.

I’m fine with Mag stable at 1280. I do not need to dose that. Water changes keep that in check and stable.

So I have been focusing on stable Alk and Cal.
 
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Randy Holmes-Farley

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What I do not understand is how I can raise the Mag to 1350, but a few days later it drops to 1280. The test kit is the same and there is room for error, but

I’m fine with Mag stable at 1280. I do not need to dose that. Water changes keep that in check and stable.
.

It can’t. There’s no mechanism for magnesium to drop like that besides salinity changes, testing error, or a big water change with a very low magnesium mix.

the fact that it seems stable at 1280 tells me it was test error, since the other effects would also alter the magnesium at 1280 ppm.
 

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