Dr Tim's Fishless Cycle and Red Sea Test Kit

[DaFlava]

So need some help first time cycling... I'm using Dr Tim's Fishless Cycle and Red Sea Test Kit.

My Tank+Sump is suppose to be 90g but I only used 60g of saltwater which actually filled to max, I'm guessing that's because of the live sand and life rock (Both CaribSea) 60 pounds each take up space. So hopefully using 60g as idea of what I should use to follow directions for on mixing (correct me if I'm wrong!)

Dr Tim's says to add ammonium solution 4 drops per gallon, so I did about 240 drops (60g). Then added the first defense 1 cap per 10 gallons, so 6 caps (60g). Then 30 mins after added the One and Only bacteria 2 caps per 10 gallons, so 12 caps (60g). I tested day 1 got blue results with the Red Sea Ammonia test, tested day 2 and samething so far. I'm day 2 and at 0 nitrite and hard to tell but think 8.2 pH. No idea on this ammonia level I'm guessing its HIGH but day 3 according to the instructions I'm suppose to add the same amount I believe which has me worried if I'd be basically doubling up on the already high ammonia levels. Any help?

 

[Azedenkae]

So need some help first time cycling... I'm using Dr Tim's Fishless Cycle and Red Sea Test Kit.

My Tank+Sump is suppose to be 90g but I only used 60g of saltwater which actually filled to max, I'm guessing that's because of the live sand and life rock (Both CaribSea) 60 pounds each take up space. So hopefully using 60g as idea of what I should use to follow directions for on mixing (correct me if I'm wrong!)

Yeah this is correct. Dose based on your actual water volume, not total volume.

Dr Tim's says to add ammonium solution 4 drops per gallon, so I did about 240 drops (60g). Then added the first defense 1 cap per 10 gallons, so 6 caps (60g). Then 30 mins after added the One and Only bacteria 2 caps per 10 gallons, so 12 caps (60g). I tested day 1 got blue results with the Red Sea Ammonia test, tested day 2 and samething so far. I'm day 2 and at 0 nitrite and hard to tell but think 8.2 pH. No idea on this ammonia level I'm guessing its HIGH but day 3 according to the instructions I'm suppose to add the same amount I believe which has me worried if I'd be basically doubling up on the already high ammonia levels. Any help?

I would recommend waiting until both ammonia and nitrite hit zero before dosing anymore. And since what you dosed seemed to result in a higher concentration of ammonia than expected, next time onwards try dosing less ammonia first and then adjust as needed to get to 2ppm. Starting at half dose tends to work, though some aquarists have found they need to start at a quarter dose even.

 

[DaFlava]

So just wait or do I need to do water change? How long could the wait be? Or should i continue cycle steps just skipping ammonia solution add?

 

[Azedenkae]

So just wait or do I need to do water change?

Just wait. No reason to do a water change unless parameters get so high that things go off the deep end.

How long could the wait be?

Depends. Could be anywhere between a week to a few months. Dr. Tim's Nitrifying Bacteria is not exactly known to work well, at least recently.

Or should i continue cycle steps just skipping ammonia solution add?

I would recommend waiting until both ammonia and nitrite hit zero before dosing anymore.

 

[Dbichler]

I’ve never redosed ammonia after first dose just wait a week to 10 days you should see nitrite down to 0 nitrate in the 40s or so. Do a large enough water change to bring it down to 5-10 and your good to go.

 

[KStatefan]

So just wait or do I need to do water change? How long could the wait be? Or should i continue cycle steps just skipping ammonia solution add?

From the website he does dot say to do a water change until after your cycle is complete unless you get above 5ppm.

Quick Guide to Fishless Cycling | DrTim's Aquatics

Quick Guide to Fishless Cycling with One & Only There are many opinions about how to fishless cycle your aquarium. But they normally just confuse readers and generate more questions than answers. Below is an article explaining the process and a couple of ways to fishless cycle, which we...

www.drtimsaquatics.com

 

[brandon429]

The reading above is two kits mixed up, thats not ammonia pictured


post the ammonia pic on the ammonia card, we apply tan conversion I bet it’s not as bad as reported. That’s nitrite reading sitting on ammonia card

 

[Rubberfrog]

The reading above is two kits mixed up, thats not ammonia pictured


post the ammonia pic on the ammonia card, we apply tan conversion I bet it’s not as bad as reported. That’s nitrite reading sitting on ammonia card

Good catch

 

[brandon429]

I wanted to do a captain morgan pose in my mind but I've been reading Dan and Randy's exchange on metallurgy in the ORP thread and I decided to remain sitting

 

[Garf]

Red Sea nitrite is pink, ain’t it?

LOL, Edit ;

 

[DaFlava]

The reading above is two kits mixed up, thats not ammonia pictured


post the ammonia pic on the ammonia card, we apply tan conversion I bet it’s not as bad as reported. That’s nitrite reading sitting on ammonia card

Not sure why your saying this, I mixed the proper ingredients all bottles say Ammonia on it. First is the powder, then B, then C containers with 10 sec mix in between. I did this 3 different times all came out blue. Did this first day as it says, then 2nd day 24hrs later which I did again same day to make sure I wasn't crazy shaking up all the kit bottles to make sure no weird mixture. I even went ahead and made sure my saltwater mix i have left over that has no ingredients didn't have some weird reading and came out 0 using the same mixing method. It's the ammonia card I'm using.

 

[Garf]

Not sure why your saying this, I mixed the proper ingredients all bottles say Ammonia on it. First is the powder, then B, then C containers with 10 sec mix in between. I did this 3 different times all came out blue. Did this first day as it says, then 2nd day 24hrs later which I did again same day to make sure I wasn't crazy shaking up all the kit bottles to make sure no weird mixture. I even went ahead and made sure my saltwater mix i have left over that has no ingredients didn't have some weird reading and came out 0 using the same mixing method. It's the ammonia card I'm using.

@Azedenkae gives solid advice. Are you in a hurry to cycle?

 

[DaFlava]

@Azedenkae gives solid advice. Are you in a hurry to cycle?

Nope and was my plan so far to follow those direcitons, just first time cycling a tank and you know when you get weird results you kinda are stuck lol. Wouldn't wanna wait weeks to find out yo your stupid and didn't add enough ammonia or hey just do a water change you can continue your cycle! I'll give it sometime on the ammonia see if it drops!

 

[brandon429]

I had not seen a red sea kit blue before agreed its unique among test returns

 

[brandon429]

post pics of the actual setup, let's see surface areas and ratios and dilution altogether that matters moreso than the tests from any kit. it takes a lot to mess up a cycle, they're not as finicky as stated online at all. that's done to trigger sales impulses and fear of incomplete cycle.


for example there's a neat trick regarding dry start bottle bac systems:
Try and find anywhere on the web an example of a failed bottle bac cycle where when fish were added, they died

Specifically that outcome...a crashed cycle attempt in gray water and the two clownfish are floating dead belly up overnite/like what happens if we add fish to a dry start setup and don't add bottle bac

The #1 implied consequence in starting before a cycle is ready is fish loss and crash, try and find one. I've searched pretty old stuff, even at reefcentral so let's see what consequences nano-reef.com can produce. Any thread from any web forum, any date link back here.


the point of this search exercise, to find one single truly stalled cycle among the two million posted, is to see if wet cycles actually ever fail to complete

one would think there'd be at least ten examples right...you're on google page 160 by now

they're all bad test reads.

 

[DaFlava]

I had not seen a red sea kit blue before agreed its unique among test returns

Seems couple of ran into this issue for example (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dr-tims-off-scale-ammonia.814804/) I reached out and they said they just stopped doing the ammonia dosage so my only guess is that it's extremely high and their instructions are off from Dr Tims. I may try to get another test kit that can read higher ammonia levels but not sure if that's realistic. I'm happy to wait but all this has me curious!

 

[brandon429]

lets save the new purchases

new cycling science applied here would say do nothing add nothing further

let stew for a total of 15 days, change water fully for new. its now cycled and all the bioslicks are in place and clean water is above it. only old science makes you wait long enough to clear mixed wastewater out perfectly on non digital kits.


if you do the exact steps above and then add life, and that life dies in a cloudy smelly crashed mess, I commit to writing a full article and posting it about the nonutility of new cycling science. I guarantee you the life you add will do fine. An unready tank will die overnite in a cloudy mess when fish are added, but a cycled tank looks normal day by day. No reef tank failing ammonia control looks normal they only look crashed, no middle ground exists for ammonia noncontrol.

the sole requirement of updated cycling science is that you shift to a timed wait, the number of days from the ammonia line off a cycling chart + some =15 and we won’t factor any more non digital test kit readings, those are always going to lead you to buy more bottled bacteria.

its not to be mean, its because test kits with one or more unstated variables going on ruins trust in new cycling science, we dont need test kits to read on a cycling chart how long it takes for ammonia to drop and stay dropped.

new cycling science changes out the wastewater created, on that date, day 15 and what you refill will be clean water above a functioning filter. the way you know it works is again not by uploading test readings, its pics of the new life added to the tank swimming, feeding and looking normal day by day.


this recommend isn't some new guess at your cycle. after completion it will go on page twenty of our new cycling science thread already running a while now. these are the exact steps from that thread above:

let your current guesstimated wastewater stew for fifteen days, it'll be fine in any common variation you didnt kill your bac. the industry tells you that so you buy more bac.

on day fifteen change water for new, add life, you're cycled. This new water stays clean because you‘re cycled, clearing out mixed wastewater by waiting ninety days simply isn’t required.

do not report a single reading from a non digital test kit, post update pics of the tank and they always look great for a reason, you're cycled.

 

[DaFlava]

Just an update, my day 11 test and this weekend I'll be doing a 25% water change per instructions. I just stopped doing the ammonia drops period. Think everything is doing well and will be great once the water change but curious what people think as this is my first time!

(Best guess on these, colors are sometimes not easy to match but told usually scale in between)
pH - 8.2
NH3 - 1.2-2
NO2 - 0.2-0.5
NO3 - 10-20
KH - 10