Dr tims fishless cycling

[MickeMagnum]

Hi fellow reefers.
New member here and my name is Mike.
Im not new to saltwater but this time im starting up a little different and im in a situation where im not sure where this is cycle is going.
I know patience is key here but it seems like nothing is happening.
Ive read a lot of posts about this but i would like to hear from you guys anyways.

This startup goes as follows.
100G tank with 80% dead clean live rock (been in freshwater for months to get rid of phosphates) and 20% live rock from my LFS.
Caribbsea live sand.
RODI water of course.
No Skimmer, no filters, no lights just circulation.
Dr Tim's One and only and his ammonium chloride solution.
I ran the tank 24H pre dosing as i have live sand and rock.

Day 1. No ammonia reading so i started dosing 4 drops per gallon as described on the bottle.
Day 2. 0ppm Ammonia, 0,25ppm Nitrite. i aslo test for Nitrates just to see where im going. The Nitrates are slowly going up.
Day 3. 0ppm Ammonia, 0,75ppm Nitrite. Added 4 drops Ammonia as instructions if low on NH3 and NO2.
Day 4. 0,5 ppm Ammonia, 1ppm Nitrite. Nitrates are still rising.
Day 5. 0ppm Ammonium, 2pp Nitrite.

Now for several days nothing happens. 0pp Ammonia and 2ppm Nitrite and around 50+ppm Nitrate every day.

On day 8 i decided to test the cycle and added 4 drops per gallon of ammonia.
Day 9 (as of today). 0ppm Ammonia, 2ppm Nitrite. Same as for past 4-5 days.

All my test are with Salifert test kits.

I have a Seachem Ammonia alert and i can see it react to the ammonia as of dosing.
But i can rarely if nothing test for ammonia with Salifert.

Am im doing something wrong here or is my tank cycled already?
Sorry for the long post but i like to be thorough.

Thanks! / Mike.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

If ammonia declines appropriately, nothing else matters in terms of being ready to add first organisms. I’d stop measuring nitrite.

It is worth being sure the ammonia test responds properly. When dosing, measure right after dosing. After the fact, you can just run a little test case in a bucket.

 

[MickeMagnum]

If ammonia declines appropriately, nothing else matters in terms of being ready to add first organisms. I’d stop measuring nitrite.

It is worth being sure the ammonia test responds properly. When dosing, measure right after dosing. After the fact, you can just run a little test case in a bucket.

Hi Randy thanks for respons =).

I did a test about 1 hour after adding ammonia and i could barely get a reading with Salifert, however, my Seachem alert responded almost immediately. And the alert as of right now 24h after doesnt pickup any ammonia after dosing yesterday.
Is it possible that the bacteria are that fast converting the ammonia?

I will definitely test in bucket! Great tip!

Thanks =).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What does 4 drops correspond to in your tank based on the bottle claim? There seem to be different ammonia potencies around.

2 ppm in less than an hour seems unusually fast, but may be real.

 

[MickeMagnum]

On this bottle it says 4 drops per US gallon (1 drop per liter) so i dosed 370 (18ml) drops as i subtracted for rocks and sand.
I live in Sweden so liters it is :P.

At first my thoughts were that the Ammonia wasn't pure so i poured a few drops on a table and after evaporated there were white crystals so there is ammonia but feels like it's not potent enough.

I do not really dare dosing a higher ammount though.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

On this bottle it says 4 drops per US gallon (1 drop per liter) so i dosed 370 (18ml) drops as i subtracted for rocks and sand.
I live in Sweden so liters it is :P.

At first my thoughts were that the Ammonia wasn't pure so i poured a few drops on a table and after evaporated there were white crystals so there is ammonia but feels like it's not potent enough.

I do not really dare dosing a higher ammount though.

It says 4 drops to 2 ppm?

Take a liter of old tank water, add 1 drop, and see if the kit measures the expected amount.

 

[MickeMagnum]

Yea sorry, 4 drops per gallon to get 2ppm.

Man this is a headscratcher for me.
Took out 1 Liter and dosed 2 drops.
Seachem reacted almost immediately but reads only 0,05-0,1ppm. wierd but it reacts atleast.
With Salifert i can see that there is an ammonia reading but it's a bit difficult to read with different lightsources.
It's definitely not 2ppm, maybe 0,5 to 1ppm.

 

[Fish Fan]

Salifert is typically a trusted kit, is it possible you have a dud here? Is the reagent expired?

 

[Fish Fan]

I don't remember if RHF has an opinion on them, but I'm pretty sure that Jay Hemdal (an R2R member that works in large public aquaria professionally) doesn't care for those ammonia badges, he doesn't feel that they are accurate. Assuming it's working well, I would be more trusting of the Salifert test here.

 

[MickeMagnum]

Salifert is typically a trusted kit, is it possible you have a dud here? Is the reagent expired?

Sure is a trusted kit.
It expires 11-2026.
My thoughts also that it might be a dud here but it does throw a reading.
Dr Tim said himself that the correct dosing might not read as 2ppm and that one should not try to dose up to 2ppm so.

 

[MickeMagnum]

I don't remember if RHF has an opinion on them, but I'm pretty sure that Jay Hemdal (an R2R member that works in large public aquaria professionally) doesn't care for those ammonia badges, he doesn't feel that they are accurate. Assuming it's working well, I would be more trusting of the Salifert test here.

I totally agree with you about them badges.
Been using Salifert and Hannas on my previous tank and i trust them for sure.

Well i suppose as i have a high Nitrates reading here over 50+ppm even though i can measure Nitrite that obscures the readings i guess that the cycle is working and maybe have finished since ammonia dissipates over 24h after dosing.

Should i try dosing ammonia again to see after 24h what the readings are or is it a safe bet to do a water change and add some fish?

 

[MnFish1]

Yea sorry, 4 drops per gallon to get 2ppm.

Man this is a headscratcher for me.
Took out 1 Liter and dosed 2 drops.
Seachem reacted almost immediately but reads only 0,05-0,1ppm. wierd but it reacts atleast.
With Salifert i can see that there is an ammonia reading but it's a bit difficult to read with different lightsources.
It's definitely not 2ppm, maybe 0,5 to 1ppm.

The drops on the Dr. Tims bottle can dose quite a different ammonia depending on multiple factors. Either there is a problem with your ammonia test -or - the drops you're getting out of the Dr. Teams are not accurately producing 2 ppm.

In any case, since you have live rock in your tank - it's highly likely that your tank is cycled.

 

[MickeMagnum]

The drops on the Dr. Tims bottle can dose quite a different ammonia depending on multiple factors. Either there is a problem with your ammonia test -or - the drops you're getting out of the Dr. Teams are not accurately producing 2 ppm.

In any case, since you have live rock in your tank - it's highly likely that your tank is cycled.

My thoughts exactly!
Circa 20% rocks are live from dealer the rest are cured dry live rock.
I have tiny pineapple sponges through out the rockwork and even some small tubeworms here and there so it feels promising =).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yea sorry, 4 drops per gallon to get 2ppm.

Man this is a headscratcher for me.
Took out 1 Liter and dosed 2 drops.
Seachem reacted almost immediately but reads only 0,05-0,1ppm. wierd but it reacts atleast.
With Salifert i can see that there is an ammonia reading but it's a bit difficult to read with different lightsources.
It's definitely not 2ppm, maybe 0,5 to 1ppm.

Seachem is reading free ammonia, not total, so it will be much lower.

I think you are cycled.

 

[MickeMagnum]

Seachem is reading free ammonia, not total, so it will be much lower.

I think you are cycled.

I think so too!

Thank you so much all of you for your answers =).