Dr Tims protocol for dinos. What is a comparable product to waste away?

[mjw011689]

I didn’t read through everyone’s replies, but I’ve had really fast success on 2 tanks by dosing hydrogen peroxide (1 ml per 10 gallons), combined with a UV sterilizer running at the higher flow rate. On one of those I dosed microbacter7, not sure if that helped anything. Both tanks, dinos were gone in 2 days for the most part.

On both of those tanks, I had no phosphate reading. Once the dinos died, my nitrates and phosphates shot up.

I had another tank that I was able to dose phosphate and once I got a reading I did a 3 day black out. That also worked but not as quick.

 

[Jcantrell]

A three day blackout has worked miracles for my tank in the past. Monitor for signs of dinos returning and repeat if necessary.

 

[GuppyHJD]

I have a terrible case of dinos. i tried UV, tried everything. Now I have been dosing refresh per dr Tims dino plan. But the waste away I ordered was delayed and now im kinda screwed. Is there another product that does the same thing? i saw a post that said maybe microbacter 7 so i just ordered some of that. But another post said its NOT the same thing. One post said NOPOX will do the same thing. is that true?

Have you identified what kind of dinos you have? treatment varies by type of dino.

 

[GuppyHJD]

i should have started out with what i have done so far. I bought a microscope. i have several different types. my UV sterilizer is doing nothing for the prorocentrum and amphindiums i have. I fixed my nutrients with brightwells neonitro and neo phos. i am dosing silicates as of 4 days ago. nothing has worked so far over last month or two. so now im trying dr tims and a blackout. i would also like to increase my biodiversity with corraline algae rock or real live rock in ocean.

Silicates can take many weeks to cause a diatom bloom

 

[REEFRIED!]

Its biological deficiencies that are causing the dino structure and its important though to identify the type of dino for most effective battle.
No light is first key followed by the addition of bacteria to overcome the bad bacteria allowing them to thrive
Prepare by starting by blowing this stuff loose with a turkey baster and siphon up loose particles. Turn lights off (at least white and run blue at 10% IF you have light dependant corals such as SPS) for 5 days and at night dose 1ml of 3% hydrogen peroxide per 10 gallons for all 5 nights which works as an oxidizer. If you dont have light dependent coral- turn all lights off. During the day dose 1ml of liquid bacteria (such as micro bacter 7 or XLM) per 10 gallons. Clean filters daily and DO NOT FEED AMINO OR ADD NOPOX which is food for dinos, however you can feed coral, food which will help no3 and po4 to increase. If increasing nutrients, try to keep no3 to about 5 until you are done battling these cells.

While fairly good advise and most common. Dosing bacteria is counterintuitive. Almost all good information regarding battling Dino’s first involves getting nutrients detectable. As most people believe bottoming out N and P are a leading cause of a Dino outbreak. A lot of people start by dosing nitrate and phosphate to at least get detectable levels and to hopefully get and keep them stable. Now once the individual accomplishes that, they start to add bottled bacteria. In some cases it’s live bacteria, but most cases it is dormant bacteria (ie. microbacter7). Either way all of this bacteria is NITRIFYING bacteria. Which will inevitably lower your nutrients. Now you are playing an even harder game of trying to keep detectable and balanced nutrients while also adding bacteria. So you are adding nutrients then also lowering them simultaneously. (Not exactly simultaneously as dormant bacteria takes awhile to become active, but you get my point).

Adding bacteria is never a bad thing when it comes to reef keeping. The struggle is fueling good bacteria while not also fueling bad bacteria. People nowadays seem to think their tanks are low on bacteria. Especially “good” bacteria. It is simply impossible to have a saltwater fish tank that is cycled and not have good bacteria. Let alone a reef tank. The live rock is covered in bacteria, so is the sand, the fish, the snails, the corals, the frags, your hand, your plumbing. All of it. Now you may also have some bad bacteria. Which is a longer discussion and generally reserved for people with coral issues and not in regards to Dino’s.

To the OP, if you are battling Dino’s then you should read as much as possible while resisting jumping into whatever someone says has worked for them. I strongly believe that adding some live sand/mud, or live rock from a good source is helpful. Blackouts and UV are also helpful, depending on the type of Dino’s. Get ready for what is most likely a long battle. Definitely keep nutrient’s detectable and also as stable as possible. Bio-available nutrients are obviously much much better than bottled options. In other words feeding more/skimming less is a far better option than dumping in Neophos etc. As natural (so to speak) nitrate and phosphate is definitely better for your corals than the end game nitrate and phosphate additives. Your corals use, feed off of, do better with nutrients somewhere in the chain from fish food to fish poo to the bacteria driven nitrifying cycle.

 

[Spare time]

Anyone who tells you they know what causes dinos and what for sure fixes the issue is lying. It's all educated guessing and anecdotal experiences

 

[vetteguy53081]

I've dosed hydrogen peroxide at 1ml/10gal every night along with mb7 during the day for 3 weeks to fight dinos/hair algae with no ill effects to nothing in my tank. I continue to dose once a week. I have shrimp, fish, coral and cuc.

Are you/have you turned lights off? If not, the dino will continue to thrive.

 

[Magic031707]

Are you/have you turned lights off? If not, the dino will continue to thrive.

I did a 3 day blackout along with changing filter floss daily

 

[vetteguy53081]

I did a 3 day blackout along with changing filter floss daily

5-7 days and floss must be changed daily. 3 days not enough

 

[Gretchacha]

I have a terrible case of dinos. i tried UV, tried everything. Now I have been dosing refresh per dr Tims dino plan. But the waste away I ordered was delayed and now im kinda screwed. Is there another product that does the same thing? i saw a post that said maybe microbacter 7 so i just ordered some of that. But another post said its NOT the same thing. One post said NOPOX will do the same thing. is that true?

Microbacter Clean would be the product similar to Waste Away.

You could try the reef snow slurry approach to applying it for added benefit. This is what I am trying now. It’s a 1:4 Calcium Carbonate slurry with probiotic of your choice.

Step 1, make your mix and let sit 30 min
Step 2: turn off filtration
Step 3: blow off rocks and sand
Step 4: dump in slurry with powerheads on
Step 5: turn on filtration after a few hours
Step 6: repeat every 2-3 days

Recipe for my personal mix per 25G:
250 ml salt water
0.25 ml Borochrome (boron)
5-10 ml bacteria supplements (Dr. Tim’s waste away)
1-2 ml CaCarbonate slurry (1:4 w/RO water)
1small scoop tropic marin reef snow bioplymer
4 drops Brightwell coral aminos
2 drops vinegar or bacto balance

Boron helps establish coralline algae, and helps prevent pest algae. Natural seawater values around 4.5, but it may be helpful to raise its value to between 6 to 8 PM.
The reef, snow and calcium carbonate help bind particulates in the water to be removed by your skimmer and help create an environment on surfaces for bio films to establish. This also helps to feed your coral corals primary food source is bacteria in the wild. If you don’t already carbon dose, adding 2 drops of white vinegar or NP Bacto Balance to this mix will help feed the bacteria. If you are feeding less due to dinos, add a few drops of coral aminos so the bacteria are more nutritious and your coral don’t starve.

I am not of the opinion, that it’s a good idea to create a bacterial bloom in the aquarium, as that drives up CO2, which is what dinos can use very easily for a carbon source for energy and reproduction, and can harm your other aquarium inhabitants with excess CO2, leading to a drop in pH, and lack of oxygen in the water.

Good luck!

 

[Reef Puncher]

While fairly good advise and most common. Dosing bacteria is counterintuitive. Almost all good information regarding battling Dino’s first involves getting nutrients detectable. As most people believe bottoming out N and P are a leading cause of a Dino outbreak. A lot of people start by dosing nitrate and phosphate to at least get detectable levels and to hopefully get and keep them stable. Now once the individual accomplishes that, they start to add bottled bacteria. In some cases it’s live bacteria, but most cases it is dormant bacteria (ie. microbacter7). Either way all of this bacteria is NITRIFYING bacteria. Which will inevitably lower your nutrients. Now you are playing an even harder game of trying to keep detectable and balanced nutrients while also adding bacteria. So you are adding nutrients then also lowering them simultaneously. (Not exactly simultaneously as dormant bacteria takes awhile to become active, but you get my point).

Adding bacteria is never a bad thing when it comes to reef keeping. The struggle is fueling good bacteria while not also fueling bad bacteria. People nowadays seem to think their tanks are low on bacteria. Especially “good” bacteria. It is simply impossible to have a saltwater fish tank that is cycled and not have good bacteria. Let alone a reef tank. The live rock is covered in bacteria, so is the sand, the fish, the snails, the corals, the frags, your hand, your plumbing. All of it. Now you may also have some bad bacteria. Which is a longer discussion and generally reserved for people with coral issues and not in regards to Dino’s.

To the OP, if you are battling Dino’s then you should read as much as possible while resisting jumping into whatever someone says has worked for them. I strongly believe that adding some live sand/mud, or live rock from a good source is helpful. Blackouts and UV are also helpful, depending on the type of Dino’s. Get ready for what is most likely a long battle. Definitely keep nutrient’s detectable and also as stable as possible. Bio-available nutrients are obviously much much better than bottled options. In other words feeding more/skimming less is a far better option than dumping in Neophos etc. As natural (so to speak) nitrate and phosphate is definitely better for your corals than the end game nitrate and phosphate additives. Your corals use, feed off of, do better with nutrients somewhere in the chain from fish food to fish poo to the bacteria driven nitrifying cycle.

ive read more in the past month than i have in a year. lol, i have watched 10,390 youtube videos on dinos, bacteria, everything. lol.
i have tried everything under the sun except hydrogen peroxide/dino X, and bacteria. however i am in day 3 of the bacteria method, using dr tims dino bacteria method using refresh and waste away with a 3 day blackout. im still dosing silicates as well.

 

[Reef Puncher]

Microbacter Clean would be the product similar to Waste Away.

You could try the reef snow slurry approach to applying it for added benefit. This is what I am trying now. It’s a 1:4 Calcium Carbonate slurry with probiotic of your choice.

Step 1, make your mix and let sit 30 min
Step 2: turn off filtration
Step 3: blow off rocks and sand
Step 4: dump in slurry with powerheads on
Step 5: turn on filtration after a few hours
Step 6: repeat every 2-3 days

Recipe for my personal mix per 25G:
250 ml salt water
0.25 ml Borochrome (boron)
5-10 ml bacteria supplements (Dr. Tim’s waste away)
1-2 ml CaCarbonate slurry (1:4 w/RO water)
1small scoop tropic marin reef snow bioplymer
4 drops Brightwell coral aminos
2 drops vinegar or bacto balance

Boron helps establish coralline algae, and helps prevent pest algae. Natural seawater values around 4.5, but it may be helpful to raise its value to between 6 to 8 PM.
The reef, snow and calcium carbonate help bind particulates in the water to be removed by your skimmer and help create an environment on surfaces for bio films to establish. This also helps to feed your coral corals primary food source is bacteria in the wild. If you don’t already carbon dose, adding 2 drops of white vinegar or NP Bacto Balance to this mix will help feed the bacteria. If you are feeding less due to dinos, add a few drops of coral aminos so the bacteria are more nutritious and your coral don’t starve.

I am not of the opinion, that it’s a good idea to create a bacterial bloom in the aquarium, as that drives up CO2, which is what dinos can use very easily for a carbon source for energy and reproduction, and can harm your other aquarium inhabitants with excess CO2, leading to a drop in pH, and lack of oxygen in the water.

Good luck!

funny how many protocols completely contradict each other. some say, turn down white lights, some say turn down the blues. some say use aminos, some say aminos feed dinos. some say carbon dose, some say carbon feeds them, some say use bacteria, some say bacteria is useless. Its crazy to know what to do. most ppl just try everything till something works.

 

[Gretchacha]

funny how many protocols completely contradict each other. some say, turn down white lights, some say turn down the blues. some say use aminos, some say aminos feed dinos. some say carbon dose, some say carbon feeds them, some say use bacteria, some say bacteria is useless. Its crazy to know what to do. most ppl just try everything till something works.

Yeah, I think you gotta pick something that makes sense to you and that you can follow consistently and then go with it for a month. I know what kind of dinos I have from my aquabiomics report. But different Dinos will respond to different treatments with varying results. For example, some are strongly affected by high pH, others not at all, and some can be battled with UV, while others not.

Ultimately find what you think your cause of dinos is in your aquarium, and try to bring it back into balance and use any tools against the species you have to get an edge.

 

[thedon986]

I never had success with Dr Tims but I did have success carbon dosing at night, keeping nutrients elevated, and dosing waterglass. The waterglass really seemed to finish them off.

 

[Kellie in CA]

I battled dinos for 2 years, and tried every method possible (including everything I see listed above).

The only thing that cured mine was ripping out the sandbed. Boom! Dinos gone. I have since added new sand, and all is well.

 

[REEFRIED!]

ive read more in the past month than i have in a year. lol, i have watched 10,390 youtube videos on dinos, bacteria, everything. lol.
i have tried everything under the sun except hydrogen peroxide/dino X, and bacteria. however i am in day 3 of the bacteria method, using dr tims dino bacteria method using refresh and waste away with a 3 day blackout. im still dosing silicates as well.

You have no idea. I had the worst case of LCA Dino’s than anyone I have ever seen. I tried hydrogen peroxide. It did not work. Not saying that it won’t work for you but didn’t for me.

The thing that finally worked for me was removing my entire sand bed

 

[Magic031707]

5-7 days and floss must be changed daily. 3 days not enough

Well they gone

 

[ingchr1]

Tropic Marin Plus-NP has helped me combat dinos on two separate occasions.

Tropic Marin Plus-NP to Combat Dinos?

I started to experience an outbreak of dinoflagellates a few weeks ago. The dinos started to worsen so I started looking in to what they consume to grow/multiply. In that thread, @taricha lead me to the @Beuchat Dinoflagellates Disruptive Treatment Article. There was a post by @Naturalreef in...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Brett G]

Join Mack’s Reef Dino Support on Facebook.

 

[teaktoc]

I have a terrible case of dinos. i tried UV, tried everything. Now I have been dosing refresh per dr Tims dino plan. But the waste away I ordered was delayed and now im kinda screwed. Is there another product that does the same thing? i saw a post that said maybe microbacter 7 so i just ordered some of that. But another post said its NOT the same thing. One post said NOPOX will do the same thing. is that true?

Copepods devour dinos.