Elegance Coral Syndrome?

[mcarroll]

So my current tank is 3 years old with my live rock from my old setups being 9 years old.

Not brand new then...but how stable?

I only have a few duncans, zoa garden, 2 rfa, acan, some gsp, new fungia plate (that survived). I run carbon, mechanical filters, and protein skimmer. 125G 6ft long tank.

Sounds like you still have a big assortment of corals.

What do you do for mechanical filtration? In general, mechanical filtration is more ideal for fish tanks....in a reef, everything that it filters out should really be coral food.

What do you use for flow and how would you say flow is in the tank? Does food tend to drift into the rocks pretty quickly or is there enough flow to keep food particles adrift until they can be eaten?

Perimeters tested today are
Salinity 1.026
Keept temps around 77-79F inkbird
pH 8
8.4dkH
0.05p04
1250mg
420cal
No amminia

Over all not too bad, but no3 (nitrate) is missing.

How stable is po4? 0.05 is on the low side depending on your test kit accuracy/precision and the overall testing trend for this parameter in your tank.

Similar question for alkalinity – how stable is that dKH number?

I suspect the acclimation to be part of the issue since it was on the extreme side...especially if the coral was already tweaked in the bag.

But if nutrient and lighting conditions where it came from were much different than your tank, that would also have been significant sources of stress.

Last, it's been getting very cold at night...was it packed with extra heat and insulation to survive the shipment?

Getting tropical livestock shipped during cold weather is not for the faint of heart...it can be rough for them and tricky for the humans to deal with. (At least something to keep in mind.)

 

[TanknTang]

Not brand new then...but how stable?


Sounds like you still have a big assortment of corals.

What do you do for mechanical filtration? In general, mechanical filtration is more ideal for fish tanks....in a reef, everything that it filters out should really be coral food.

What do you use for flow and how would you say flow is in the tank? Does food tend to drift into the rocks pretty quickly or is there enough flow to keep food particles adrift until they can be eaten?


Over all not too bad, but no3 (nitrate) is missing.

How stable is po4? 0.05 is on the low side depending on your test kit accuracy/precision and the overall testing trend for this parameter in your tank.

Similar question for alkalinity – how stable is that dKH number?

I suspect the acclimation to be part of the issue since it was on the extreme side...especially if the coral was already tweaked in the bag.

But if nutrient and lighting conditions where it came from were much different than your tank, that would also have been significant sources of stress.

Last, it's been getting very cold at night...was it packed with extra heat and insulation to survive the shipment?

Getting tropical livestock shipped during cold weather is not for the faint of heart...it can be rough for them and tricky for the humans to deal with. (At least something to keep in mind.)

Sorry I added the n03 last second I forgot it, but it was under 10ppm but my reagant is also expired. I use hanna checkers. Mechanical I do the mesh sponge, floss, then have bag of zeolite, and matrix rocks. I have a gyre 4 at one end of the tank, and its dialed down, its great flow. I had that elegance in a cove that was hidden from any direct flow, with enough shade from my k7 light. It was getting measured light at 60PAR. Just to help it adjust. But obviously that didnt help. For stability it has been great, I do 20 gallon water changes every 3 days. As for shipment, he lives in the same state not even an hour away. It had two heating packs with styrofoam case. It seemed well. Yeah I regret doing the dipx, I just hated the hitchhikers I got from earlier corals, and I pulled some hitch hiker worm off the elegance with tweezers too. I shouldve just done idione dip if anything. I feel horrible about it.

 

[jamie1210]

I know you (probably) just lost 300 over this, but if you're ever going to spend $$$ on an elegance again, I would buy an aquacultured one from Biota. I picked one up from them last year at a show, and it has been doing marvelously since. Yes, kinda pricey, but pretty bullet proof IME

 

[mcarroll]

Sorry I added the n03 last second I forgot it, but it was under 10ppm but my reagant is also expired. I use hanna checkers.

See if you can get the LFS to test NO3 for you – can't trust expired chems. ;)

Mechanical I do the mesh sponge, floss, then have bag of zeolite, and matrix rocks.

Sounds like a freshwater fish tank filter setup...saltwater is used to clean zeolite filters from freshwater, right?

Was this tank converted from a fish only tank? You should be able to dispense with all of that.

Is there a protein skimmer?

I have a gyre 4 at one end of the tank, and its dialed down, its great flow. I had that elegance in a cove that was hidden from any direct flow

Hm....corals need some direct flow in order to feed and breathe through their boundary layer of mucus and stagnant water.

The coral-seawater interface is an important, highly dynamic microenvironment for reef-building corals. Also known as the concentration boundary layer (CBL), it is a thin layer of seawater bordering the coral surface that dictates the biochemical exchange between the coral colony and bulk seawater. The CBL is thus a key feature that modulates coral metabolism.

From: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00338-024-02531-7

Too much flow can theoretically hurt them, but you might've been overprotective on this (GPH in the wild is WAY more than we can provide in a tank by one or two orders of magnitude). Plus those pumps, and most pumps these days, provide flow velocity (not GPH) that is just adequate in the first place....so it's pretty safe for most corals to be in the path.

GPH gets all the attention, so if you don't know the dif between flow velocity (eg feet/second) and flow rate (eg GPH), check out Tunze's classic video demonstration and you should get it before the end:


In a nutshell, velocity is what does all the work, not GPH....so a low velocity pump on "60%" where it's actually "off" for part of the cycle and lower-speed for the "on" part of the cycle might be just barely effective in the tank.

with enough shade from my k7 light. It was getting measured light at 60PAR. Just to help it adjust. But obviously that didnt help.

That's below corals compensation point – the point at which photosynthesis can cover their basic energetic needs. 100 PAR (~5000 lux) would be a good minimum for most corals in the future. If you haven't already read Dana Riddle's articles on coral lighting that talk about what "too much" is and how corals deal with lighting, this should be at the top of your reading list.

For stability it has been great, I do 20 gallon water changes every 3 days.

That sounds like a potentially aggressive water change schedule. Might be fine, but do you test enough to know what impact these water changes have on nutrient and mineral levels? I'd be very curious if, among other things, no3 and/or po4 were dipping too low. If you have your test numbers logged I'd be curious to see them. (I'd start logging test results if you don't already.)

As for shipment, he lives in the same state not even an hour away. It had two heating packs with styrofoam case. It seemed well.

Sounds like measures were taken. Seems less likely but I wonder if there's any chance of overheating during the trip?

Yeah I regret doing the dipx, I just hated the hitchhikers I got from earlier corals, and I pulled some hitch hiker worm off the elegance with tweezers too. I shouldve just done idione dip if anything.

Curious if you have a pic of the worm by any chance? Hitchhikers have been fear mongered just like other things in the hobby, so it's worth checking these things out before reacting.

I'm not sure any dip is recommended for a coral that's already tweaked....a better fate if you were paranoid of hitchhikers would have been an observation tank (aka "QT"....meaning quarantine, which traditionally means 40 days of observation). Something you should consider setting up if you plan to acquire more livestock sight unseen.....you are unable to predict the risk you're taking when you buy in that manner. Be prepared for anything – and don't bet everything on something that's supposed to be some kind of cure-all, aka magic bullet. Better yet, buy locally where you have the advantage of walking away after seeing the coral is in marginal condition.

I feel horrible about it.

Something we've all gone through, more or less, so don't feel too bad. The only real reason to feel bad IMO is if you don't learn from your mistakes.....somehow I think that's not going to be your problem.

 

[Uncle99]

I just sent him a text, we will see what comes of it.. probably just me buying more lol. dang that just sucks. That was the most I ever spent too. Now I am even more afraid to get into torches etc.

Don’t be afraid of torches, easier IME than elegance provided the get good flow to prevent crap settling in the polyps, they are sensitive to that.

In 40 years, I’ve not been able to keep elegance more than 12-16 months at most, with many looking absolutely great for about 6 months, then gone in a week. I read there’s a difference between Indo and Australian, but I really can’t tell for sure, what the sources were. Long tentacle plates are the exact same. Never passed 6-8 months, looking great, then just poof, gone.

Some people have claimed 2-3 years and going, but not once did I get a pic when requested.

Most LFS know this. That’s why it’s common for them to go on sales after 2 months unsold.

On the other side is my torches.

These are 5 years old, never and issue other than keeping them together and not in reach of others.

 

[TanknTang]

I know you (probably) just lost 300 over this, but if you're ever going to spend $$$ on an elegance again, I would buy an aquacultured one from Biota. I picked one up from them last year at a show, and it has been doing marvelously since. Yes, kinda pricey, but pretty bullet proof IME

So he actually JUST replied saying he would give me another one with my next order… however I declined the gesture. I do not want another death on my hands. They are too beautiful. If anything I wish there was more info given when I bought it. I will check out biota but it was this elegeance for 300 or a duncan colony for 300… I wish I did the duncan now :/

 

[TanknTang]

See if you can get the LFS to test NO3 for you – can't trust expired chems. ;)


Sounds like a freshwater fish tank filter setup...saltwater is used to clean zeolite filters from freshwater, right?

Was this tank converted from a fish only tank? You should be able to dispense with all of that.

Is there a protein skimmer?


Hm....corals need some direct flow in order to feed and breathe through their boundary layer of mucus and stagnant water.


From: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00338-024-02531-7

Too much flow can theoretically hurt them, but you might've been overprotective on this (GPH in the wild is WAY more than we can provide in a tank by one or two orders of magnitude). Plus those pumps, and most pumps these days, provide flow velocity (not GPH) that is just adequate in the first place....so it's pretty safe for most corals to be in the path.

GPH gets all the attention, so if you don't know the dif between flow velocity (eg feet/second) and flow rate (eg GPH), check out Tunze's classic video demonstration and you should get it before the end:


In a nutshell, velocity is what does all the work, not GPH....so a low velocity pump on "60%" where it's actually "off" for part of the cycle and lower-speed for the "on" part of the cycle might be just barely effective in the tank.


That's below corals compensation point – the point at which photosynthesis can cover their basic energetic needs. 100 PAR (~5000 lux) would be a good minimum for most corals in the future. If you haven't already read Dana Riddle's articles on coral lighting that talk about what "too much" is and how corals deal with lighting, this should be at the top of your reading list.


That sounds like a potentially aggressive water change schedule. Might be fine, but do you test enough to know what impact these water changes have on nutrient and mineral levels? I'd be very curious if, among other things, no3 and/or po4 were dipping too low. If you have your test numbers logged I'd be curious to see them. (I'd start logging test results if you don't already.)


Sounds like measures were taken. Seems less likely but I wonder if there's any chance of overheating during the trip?


Curious if you have a pic of the worm by any chance? Hitchhikers have been fear mongered just like other things in the hobby, so it's worth checking these things out before reacting.

I'm not sure any dip is recommended for a coral that's already tweaked....a better fate if you were paranoid of hitchhikers would have been an observation tank (aka "QT"....meaning quarantine, which traditionally means 40 days of observation). Something you should consider setting up if you plan to acquire more livestock sight unseen.....you are unable to predict the risk you're taking when you buy in that manner. Be prepared for anything – and don't bet everything on something that's supposed to be some kind of cure-all, aka magic bullet. Better yet, buy locally where you have the advantage of walking away after seeing the coral is in marginal condition.


Something we've all gone through, more or less, so don't feel too bad. The only real reason to feel bad IMO is if you don't learn from your mistakes.....somehow I think that's not going to be your problem.

So my LFS actually recommended the zeolite but now you got me wondering. Google said this Zeolite is a natural, micro-porous alumino-silicate mineral used in marine and reef aquariums to bind ammonia, reduce heavy metals, and help control excess nitrates and phosphates.

No this tank was the result of combining two systems into one bigger tank overall. I am sumpless, I run HOBS. Tidal 110 filter. I have a custom box for inside it for holding any filtration rocks etc. I use the bags for charcoal , zeolite and matrix. A legit reactor for Carbon HOB is on my christmas list this year. I just got the protein skimmer 3 weeks ago and it runs great.

My gyre pump was dialed down, and even at the far end of my 6ft my zoas were like WoooOoaAAh mannn haha.

I just started logging my data, and getting more into reefing again after a dry spell of wanting to give up. I just work so much and it got tired some but something sparked to do better. Thats when I found randys pH testing forum and I was gunna either buy a nice pH meter with the HCI solution tondo some lab testing for dkH or buy an elegance coral… welp. Maybe I should cut back on water changes then? Only thing I notice fluctuate is my Dkh, and my mag is sometimes 1200 but after my wc it goes back to ideal. But since my reagant is expired you make me wonder if the zeolite is hurting my setup, I might go down and remove it shortly.

I do not unfort the worm was super translucent, probably not harmful but I went down the bobbit worm hole awhile ago and I was sceeerd.

And I been wanting to setup a QT tank but I live in an apartment and my tank is in the basement and theres no more outlets available unfort.

He offered to replace it but I declined I dont want it to happen again whether it was me or the shipping. I’ma stick to duncans or something similiar for now.

 

[TanknTang]

Don’t be afraid of torches, easier IME than elegance provided the get good flow to prevent crap settling in the polyps, they are sensitive to that.

In 40 years, I’ve not been able to keep elegance more than 12-16 months at most, with many looking absolutely great for about 6 months, then gone in a week. I read there’s a difference between Indo and Australian, but I really can’t tell for sure, what the sources were. Long tentacle plates are the exact same. Never passed 6-8 months, looking great, then just poof, gone.

Some people have claimed 2-3 years and going, but not once did I get a pic when requested.

Most LFS know this. That’s why it’s common for them to go on sales after 2 months unsold.

On the other side is my torches.

These are 5 years old, never and issue other than keeping them together and not in reach of others.

Mine wouldve been like a purple with the same green :/ so elegant they are. Thanks man, I’ma avoid them for now.. maybe invest in a duncan colony instead.

 

[TanknTang]

Just an update, removed the zeolite media, going to do a 20 gallon water change just cause I am afraid if it was a chance of brown jelly disease I want to help the other corals as much as possible. I will be ordering the medication now that I am aware, to have on standby!

My coral guy offered to replace it, even though theres zero exceptions.. and then I declined. He countered saying I can stop by and pick something else out whenever I want. Guy is too nice and appreciate him.

All in all, a life is gone.. a beautiful one. I did learn a lot unfortunately from it. Appreciate all you reefers always helping out. Theres always a risk of course, but still sad. The setup is going to just keep getting bigger and badder now that I am back into starstruck reefing again. About to make the christmas list.. majority reefing stuff hahaha.

Big thanks. Wish there was a microscope or somehow to inspect the bacteria if any that killed it… today in the cup there was a CRAP ton of worms that inside it. Mightve been bristle. Skinny redish worms.

 

[KrisReef]

That was a very nice specimen, the tips were unique and unusual if I remember correctly how they are.

 

[Lucky Corals Verified Sponsor]

Unless if you overdid the dip the damage and tissue falling off occurred because the coral was in bad shape before it was shipped.

It’s not uncommon for elegance corals to go down hill quickly in the first six months. In nature they get lots of flow and the survive better in aquariums with medium flow.

Ive had numerous elegance for years. If you feed them once a week and give them medium flow maybe 80 percent of them can thrive long term. They aren’t an easy coral but definetly not impossible. Only buy one extending well. If they don’t extend well it’s much harder to acclimate them to captive life.

 

[TanknTang]

Unless if you overdid the dip the damage and tissue falling off occurred because the coral was in bad shape before it was shipped.

It’s not uncommon for elegance corals to go down hill quickly in the first six months. In nature they get lots of flow and the survive better in aquariums with medium flow.

Ive had numerous elegance for years. If you feed them once a week and give them medium flow maybe 80 percent of them can thrive long term. They aren’t an easy coral but definetly not impossible. Only buy one extending well. If they don’t extend well it’s much harder to acclimate them to captive life.

Thanks for the feedback! I am probably going to avoid them from here on out.. not worth the risk for me. Otherwise I would deff reach out for some more tips!

 

[The Ugly Phase]

btw i do not acclimate corals i just dip them and into my tank they go i think acclimating them would be more stressful