Equipment for a Non-Sumped Reef

[Cammy]

Hi all,

Anyone have experience running a reef on an external canister filter? I’d love to hear any stories or advice?

In my 12+ years I have seen them online but never met someone who has, and now I have a client who has an in-wall aquarium, previously used as a tropical tank. Sadly there is no way to sump this tank due to its position in the room and wall. However, there is space for an external filter in a separate cabinet.

He wants several small colourful fish, with mostly softies. He would ideally also like some macroalgae, a couple of LPS and a bubbletip anemone. I will be handling maintenance on the tank once a week so there will be some help available, and he will be handling daily feeding, dosing all-for-reef and glass cleaning.

Tank - 32” (L) x 14.5” (W) x 21” (H) *so quite tall and narrow* (including external filter volume, approximately 40 U.S. Gallons)

I was considering using a large Oase Biomaster Thermo external, using a D-D temperature controller with the heater. What would you all think of this as a suitable external filter and what would you consider putting in the chambers?

I was thinking - Foam (gradually getting finer), then bioballs, then carbon, rowaphos and zeolite stones (as required for the chemical media).

For the rest of the aquarium equipment - AI Blade Coral Grow 30”, Nero 5 Powerhead, you get the picture.

 

[Subsea]

I use cannister filters on reef tanks, but not the way you do. I use them as high flow cryptic refugiums with reef rubble.

For your application, I would not use a sponge due to likely biofouling & reduced flow.

What are you using for in tank circulation and more importantly gas exchange?

 

[Cammy]

I use cannister filters on reef tanks, but not the way you do. I use them as high flow cryptic refugiums with reef rubble.

For your application, I would not use a sponge due to likely biofouling & reduced flow.

What are you using for in tank circulation and more importantly gas exchange?

Nero on one end and the return spray bar from the external filter on the other. The filter runs around 1550lph through a 2.1 US Gallon canister with foam and biomedia when clean.

Thankfully the wall already had an extractor fan fitted into the cavity which runs in exchange with an inlet allowing fresh air from outside the property to circulate 24/7 across the top of the tank.

There is a possibility for a hang on skimmer on one side of the tank, but it will depend on clearance space as I’m unable to alter the walls. I should also say it is viewable from both long sides as it acts as a divider between a hallway and home office.

How would you recommend running it? Very keen to hear from the R2R hive mind on this.

 

[Cammy]

I am not in the majority as I focus on nutrient recycling and not export. My focuses uses biodiversity of micro fauna & fana that provide multiple nutrient pathways for processing both organic &/inorganic nutrients. I use diver collected live rock &/“I’ve sand to bring in this diversity.

https://gulfliverock.com/hitchhiker-id
https://img1.wsimg.com/isteam/ip/90...349/premium-deco-rock-17.gif/:/rs=w:403,h:303

Very interesting and I would love to hear more, as with this tank I was considering to really try to utilise a lot of microfauna given the constraints and furthermore, he has a desire for macro algae and an interest in a very natural looking reef. For example I was going to use a very course substrate on one end to allow for microfauna to safely breed, going towards much finer substrate on the other end.

My concern was just the lack of mechanical filtration that the tank will have?

The only other issue is that I live in the UK so access to good quality liverock is incredibly restricted at the moment. I can thankfully seed it from my own and other customers tanks, but it will not have anywhere near the biodiversity that you’re able to get.

 

[Tamberav]

If it were my tank I wouldn’t run a filter at all but if someone else was maintaining it. Ha! Sure! It can be their job.

I would put carbon in it for the softies chemical warfare and docs from the macro as well as potential smell.

Not sure what else but probably not phosphate remover. Seems silly to use that in a macro/softy tank. Especially one that does not exist yet…

Rubble or matrix media etc, is not needed from a biological standpoint (rock will do it) but pods, worms, starfish, etc will probably enjoy it.

Water clarity may be better with pads in it but that is personal preference. Some would prefer to led the stuff cycle through and feed filter feeders.

 

[Subsea]

Very interesting and I would love to hear more, as with this tank I was considering to really try to utilise a lot of microfauna given the constraints and furthermore, he has a desire for macro algae and an interest in a very natural looking reef. For example I was going to use a very course substrate on one end to allow for microfauna to safely breed, going towards much finer substrate on the other end.

My concern was just the lack of mechanical filtration that the tank will have?

The only other issue is that I live in the UK so access to good quality liverock is incredibly restricted at the moment. I can thankfully seed it from my own and other customers tanks, but it will not have anywhere near the biodiversity that you’re able to get.

It is not necessary to have all mature live rock.

“My concern was just the lack of mechanical filtration that the tank will have?“

I don’t use any mechanical filter.

However for your client, use a filter pad prefilter in front of canister and change it during weekly maintenance.

 

[Subsea]

My concern was just the lack of mechanical filtration that the tank will have?

Consider a reverse flow ug filter using an external pump in a closed loop. I use aroggonite as a substrate to provide passive alkalinity buffering & trace mineral addition.

 

[00W]

I believe @FUNGI runs his tank on just fx 4's and 6's but I could be mistaken I'm not as smart as I used to be. ;)
Back in the day that was all I had for filtration, a magnum 350.
Sad they discontinued those.
I still use a canister but it's filled with rubble.
I use it mainly for surface agitation.
I really rely on powerheads for internal flow.
I also have crushed coral in 2 baskets.
I've noticed a slight rise in PH which I like, carbon/polyfilter in the top basket, whichever I feel like.
I don't use any mechanical filtration.
I also use a fluval 304.
So far the fluval is the only one that won't blow up on me.

 

[00W]

Oh yeah I'm a skimmer fanatic.
Bigger the better.
If you have room, IMHO it's a must.

 

[Subsea]

All of my systems are skimmerless and 70% are sumpless.

 

[Cammy]

Thank you all for the input. This is quite the deviation from what I’m used to helping to set up, and my own tanks which are all based on the Zeovit method.

I’ve done the maths and I should be able to slip a deltec MCE 600 and run a tube to the collection cup on one side with the external canister on the other. I think the other appeal for the canister filter in the cabinet is that my client is wheelchair bound. Therefore in the event of a breakage or something urgent needing changed, would be able to replace the heater or medias since it is included within these canisters whereas anything inside the tank would either require myself or a family member. We’re also including a 36hr backup generator incase of a power outage that he can switch the whole system to by simply moving one plug.

I am doing the install free of charge, and want to get it right first time (to the best of our abilities), so really appreciate the input here!

His bioload for the tank is looking something like the following:

- Pair of clowns
- Flymo Blenny
- Coral Beauty
- Royal Gramma
- Shrimp Goby
- Pair of firefish

 

[Subsea]

“I am doing the install free of charge, and want to get it right first time (to the best of our abilities), so really appreciate the input here!“


Cammy,
Kudoes to you! I salute those that invest in humanity & grace.

As a Laissez Faire reefer, I also salute you for taking a walk on the wild side of Reefing: High nutrient mixed garden lagoons that recycle nutrients that move carbon up the food web in the microbial loop.
Because I have easy access to Caribbean & Gulf of Mexico offshore artificial reefs established by environmental stewards that barged 10 million tons of Bryozoan limestone in the late1990’s:
Tampa Bay Saltwater & Gulf Live Rock stand out for me. I focus on filter feeders & ornamental seaweeds that come from these high nutrient systems. Within the diversity of filter feeders, for me, sponges have become the third leg of biochemistry within the coral reef complex ecosystem that I call the “Coral Holibiont”, where bacteria crosstalk and adjust their environment using “gene expression”.

Cammy said,
“Very interesting and I would love to hear more, as with this tank I was considering to really try to utilise a lot of microfauna given the constraints and furthermore, he has a desire for macro algae and an interest in a very natural looking reef. For example I was going to use a very course substrate on one end to allow for microfauna to safely breed, going towards much finer substrate on the other end.”

Subsea said,
The course substrate would provide a matrix of security for pods. This would be another plus for using reverse flow undergravel filter as it would provide oxygenated flow up to stop excessive accumulation of detritus.

Cammy said,
“There is a possibility for a hang on skimmer on one side of the tank, but it will depend on clearance space as I’m unable to alter the walls. I should also say it is viewable from both long sides as it acts as a divider between a hallway and home office.”

Subsea said,
Not a big fan of what skimmers capture with respect to the microbial food web.

 

[coreytrv]

Hi all,

Anyone have experience running a reef on an external canister filter? I’d love to hear any stories or advice?

In my 12+ years I have seen them online but never met someone who has, and now I have a client who has an in-wall aquarium, previously used as a tropical tank. Sadly there is no way to sump this tank due to its position in the room and wall. However, there is space for an external filter in a separate cabinet.

He wants several small colourful fish, with mostly softies. He would ideally also like some macroalgae, a couple of LPS and a bubbletip anemone. I will be handling maintenance on the tank once a week so there will be some help available, and he will be handling daily feeding, dosing all-for-reef and glass cleaning.

Tank - 32” (L) x 14.5” (W) x 21” (H) *so quite tall and narrow* (including external filter volume, approximately 40 U.S. Gallons)

I was considering using a large Oase Biomaster Thermo external, using a D-D temperature controller with the heater. What would you all think of this as a suitable external filter and what would you consider putting in the chambers?

I was thinking - Foam (gradually getting finer), then bioballs, then carbon, rowaphos and zeolite stones (as required for the chemical media).

For the rest of the aquarium equipment - AI Blade Coral Grow 30”, Nero 5 Powerhead, you get the picture.

I have a 400 gallon running on a canister filter. All equipment in inline, IE heater. I used a koi pond bead filter, you can add a sediment filter for finer filtration. Protein skimmer can be external, and plumbed without a sump.

I have since added a sump since I am reefing, and wanted a refugium.

But you can see the system was originally built as closed loop canister ONLY.

Here's my one-line diagram:

 

[Cammy]

Hey all,

Just wanted to thank you all for your input, the project has been a success thus far. Ended up with the following -

Fluval 407 cannister with 2 trays extra biofiltration, getting mechanical cleaned 1x per week with a weekly 20% w/c done via a custom mixing station
Inline JBL e500 Heater
Deltec 10W UV clarifier
AI Blade 21" Coral Grow
D-D Advanced ATO (love these for the price)
Jebao Crossflow Gyre Pump
Caulerpa Prolifera in the display for extra nitrate reduction

Livestock (I'd say slightly over stocked but the current equipment and maintenance schedule is handling it)
- Black Storm Clown Pair
- Firefish Pair
- Bangaii Cardinal Pair
- Tail Spot Blenny
- Cleaner Shrimp Pair
- Various CUC
- BTA x 3
- various softies and a couple of lps - chalice, hammer, frogspawn, duncans and bubble

Parameters (not perfect but acceptable)
NO3 - 5ppm
PO4 - 0.1ppm
pH - 8.1
kH - 8.0

So yes, thank you all again for helping me along here!

 

[Sophie"s mom]

Hi all,

Anyone have experience running a reef on an external canister filter? I’d love to hear any stories or advice?

In my 12+ years I have seen them online but never met someone who has, and now I have a client who has an in-wall aquarium, previously used as a tropical tank. Sadly there is no way to sump this tank due to its position in the room and wall. However, there is space for an external filter in a separate cabinet.

He wants several small colourful fish, with mostly softies. He would ideally also like some macroalgae, a couple of LPS and a bubbletip anemone. I will be handling maintenance on the tank once a week so there will be some help available, and he will be handling daily feeding, dosing all-for-reef and glass cleaning.

Tank - 32” (L) x 14.5” (W) x 21” (H) *so quite tall and narrow* (including external filter volume, approximately 40 U.S. Gallons)

I was considering using a large Oase Biomaster Thermo external, using a D-D temperature controller with the heater. What would you all think of this as a suitable external filter and what would you consider putting in the chambers?

I was thinking - Foam (gradually getting finer), then bioballs, then carbon, rowaphos and zeolite stones (as required for the chemical media).

For the rest of the aquarium equipment - AI Blade Coral Grow 30”, Nero 5 Powerhead, you get the picture.

I have a 90 gallon, and I use an Oase' 600 Biomaster canister filter! It is an amazing filter for sure. It has a pre filter that I clean weekly. The brunt of the filter I change / clean monthly. I also have a HOB Reef Octo skimmer

 

[Uncle99]

A 65g with no sump.
Just a HoB filter and skimmer

 

[nickng]

Hi all,

Anyone have experience running a reef on an external canister filter? I’d love to hear any stories or advice?

In my 12+ years I have seen them online but never met someone who has, and now I have a client who has an in-wall aquarium, previously used as a tropical tank. Sadly there is no way to sump this tank due to its position in the room and wall. However, there is space for an external filter in a separate cabinet.

He wants several small colourful fish, with mostly softies. He would ideally also like some macroalgae, a couple of LPS and a bubbletip anemone. I will be handling maintenance on the tank once a week so there will be some help available, and he will be handling daily feeding, dosing all-for-reef and glass cleaning.

Tank - 32” (L) x 14.5” (W) x 21” (H) *so quite tall and narrow* (including external filter volume, approximately 40 U.S. Gallons)

I was considering using a large Oase Biomaster Thermo external, using a D-D temperature controller with the heater. What would you all think of this as a suitable external filter and what would you consider putting in the chambers?

I was thinking - Foam (gradually getting finer), then bioballs, then carbon, rowaphos and zeolite stones (as required for the chemical media).

For the rest of the aquarium equipment - AI Blade Coral Grow 30”, Nero 5 Powerhead, you get the picture.

Hi, a suggestion would be to use the Oase with only the removable prefilter and load it up loosely with chunks of cured live coral rock (the stuff like marco rocks, etc doesn't seem to be a porous compared to the nautral reef/coral rocks).The Oase canister will act as a refugium and cryptic zone with real live sponges
Also with a large amount of live coral rock, pretty sure you can get away with having to do too much water changes. Having lots of macro-algae will absorb the nitrate and phosphate. Maybe also pump the outlet of the canister to a external macro-algae reactor (tunze macro algae reactor, paxbellum, GEO AR418).

I run a fluval407 as a cryptic zone pulling water thru a UV, no filtration in the fluval cannister just live rocks.