euphyllia damage - help

benny z · Jan 29, 2014

last weekend i picked up a sweet tri-color torch that had two good heads and one dead head.

on top of the dead head, i used some reef putty to mount a piece of orange torch to make a multi-color torch display.

i'm afraid that in the process of applying the putty, i damaged the tissue on the side of the good head closest to where i applied the putty. :sad:

in my experience, it's very hard for euphyllia to recover from tissue damage along the edge like this. but i just noticed it this morning, and it's a very small area. just curious if there is *anything* i can do to help its chance of making it through this trauma? or will i almost certainly be down to one good head soon?

the damage:

this is how i mounted the two together - took this right after i did it:

and a pic from two nights ago, from the top:

appreciate any advice.

cheers!

benny z · Jan 29, 2014

*bumpage

GHill762 · Jan 29, 2014

I'm sorry I don't know the answer. maybe an iodine dip would help?

very cool idea you are going for there though..

benny z · Jan 29, 2014

Thx..I was hoping to add a third color also. Maybe I'll have a new spot to carefully mount another. :(

I would really like to save it, if at all possible though!

Rob.D · Jan 29, 2014

A diluted iodine dip will help with any possible infection to the damaged area, if your tank is healthy it should rebound. Try Lugols dip.

tektite · Jan 29, 2014

Just keep an eye on it. I've seen much worse pull through with no problem. Feed it 2-3x per week, gives it more energy to heal itself. Keep in low-med flow until healed too.

benny z · Jan 29, 2014

thanks guys - i'll report back with how it goes.

benny z · Jan 30, 2014

i'm curious, to the feeding comment...if that is really something i should attempt at this point? i'm almost wanting to say that i feel corals use too much energy during feeding. if it's damaged and using stored energy trying to recover, do you think it may be better to hope it has enough stored energy to recover some first?

also, i read recently here where someone was treating damaged lps by doing an amino acid bath. but again, this would be to feed the coral. it may be a less energy-consuming feeding method, however. i wish i could find it now to ask them some more specific questions! does this happen to ring a bell to anyone reading this???

tektite · Jan 30, 2014

Absolutely, feed it often! It gives the coral more energy to put toward healing. Not sure where you got that corals use more energy eating than they get from food, but that is not true. I've also heard of amino acid baths, but don't know specifics or how much they help vs. just giving the coral stability and food.

benny z · Jan 30, 2014

tektite said:
Absolutely, feed it often! It gives the coral more energy to put toward healing. Not sure where you got that corals use more energy eating than they get from food, but that is not true. I've also heard of amino acid baths, but don't know specifics or how much they help vs. just giving the coral stability and food.

thanks for your response. i may have mis-stated... i don't believe corals use more energy eating than is worth the effort typically, but with a recently-stressed coral, i wasn't sure if that would be the case. i will give it a go today.

appreciate your help!

cheers!

tektite · Jan 30, 2014

There's a well-known guy on RC who has brought a lot of LPS back from almost dead, frequent feedings are his main course of action beyond tank stability and good parameters. Same with me, I have a much much higher success rate with damaged LPS when I feed them vs. waiting to see how they recover on their own. The main thing to be concerned about with damage to the flesh is infections/things like brown jelly disease. Good luck! That's a gorgeous torch.

benny z · Jan 30, 2014

thanks again! yes, i agree...not often you see a torch quite like this, and i'd hate to lose the head. brown jelly disease scares the living daylights out of me, as i've seen it wipe out enitre tanks of lps livestock! :o

i did some more searching and found references to using amino acid baths in these posts:

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/member-tanks/87236-nuocmams-90-a-10.html#post1365374

https://www.reef2reef.com/forums/ge...y-keeping-aussie-scolys-alive.html#post219021

now i just need to contact them, and hope for a helpful reply to the specifics of the amino acid bathing. neither of these are the specific posting i remember reading recently, which did include the duration and concentration dilution detail for the bath. wish i could find it...

benny z · Jan 30, 2014

well, crap. i just took a close look with the lights off while it's mostly retracted. couple things to note here: the bad head i posted yesterday looks like it's receded more; but more importantly i noticed this dark brown line at the skeleton where the tissue starts, noticeable on the remaining "good" head. i'm beginning to wonder if this piece wasn't healthy from the start, and i just didn't notice it. it may explain why one head on the piece was already dead.

does anyone recognize this and are you able to recommend treatment beyond lugol's solution?

apologize for the image quality - shooting in the dark w/ flash and through front curved glass for this angle.

tektite · Jan 30, 2014

There is something called black band disease, usually on SPS but it can affect LPS too. Beyond iodine there are some antibiotics that have been used to help with some LPS diseases, but that's a last resort.

You might want to remove the gold torch from the tricolor just in case, keep the tricolor by itself for a little while. Food and an iodine dip for now is best, keep it under observation. Hopefully it will recover on its own.

benny z · Jan 30, 2014

i wish i had paid closer attention when i bought the coral. seems i was wrapped up in the unique coloration, and failed miserably at giving it a close thorough inspection before saying i'd take it. i may have noticed the black line, and i may have not - but i can say for certain i didn't look closely enough before buying it. dangit. not only am i worried about losing the piece, but now i'm concerned that i don't know enough about black band disease to know if it may spread to my other lps.

i'll follow your advice and remove the orange torch for now.

thanks again. would appreciate any info someone could point me to about black band disease in lps corals.

cheers!

tektite · Jan 30, 2014

I highly doubt its something like black band, I've only seen pics of it on SPS and stonier LPS, not euphyllia. How high of flow is it in?

benny z · Jan 30, 2014

"low flow", "med flow", "high flow"...it's all so relative! lol :)

the tank it's in is a standard 28g jbj nanocube. i've got a single mp-10 on one side (opposite side of the tank), usually running at about 75% max potential in a random mode. it's definitely not getting any direct flow from the mp-10, or from the return nozzles coming from the pumps in the back of the tank. it does, however, get a good back current where the water meets the glass on that side, and whips back towards the pump side. however, i've kept torch in this tank for years in this location with the same flow setup and doubt it is too much flow. i did dial the mp-10 down to a max of a little under 50% potential yesterday, just in case.

benny z · Jan 30, 2014

man, i just dipped it. i'm sure the one head is a goner. i put it in a container with the lugol's solution and used a turkey baster to move water around the coral. as soon as the water started to move, it bailed some polyps. :(

here it is in the dip container.

think that looks like brown jelly? hard for me to tell. it's not like a big ugly gooey brownish glob over the whole head, which is what i would expect with brown jelly. no?

TJ's Reef · Jan 30, 2014

Hang in there Ben, I have faith that you can still save it from a sad ending. I've had a few Euphyllia sp. recover from worse looking conditions using Lugol's and or MelaFix Marine baths and being in better/ more stable water conditions.

Cheers, Todd