filtration equipment?

[ARGYGANG]

i have roughly 120 pounds of liverock in my 90 gallon, with a 35 gallon sump underneath. i run a octo 130 protein skimmer and a aqua 15 watt uv sterilizer for my equipment. i have carbon pads in the spill over from my refugium/skimmer section and i dont use filter socks because the sump i have the socks are crazy expensive its the weird rectangle socks they are like $40 for three of the generic ones on amazon just simply cant afford that. is that enough filtration because it feels a bit underwhelming tbh? anything i should buy and add to the sump for more filtration? its fish only right now but im moving to reef soon so advice on reef filtration is prefered.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

i have roughly 120 pounds of liverock in my 90 gallon, with a 35 gallon sump underneath. i run a octo 130 protein skimmer and a aqua 15 watt uv sterilizer for my equipment. i have carbon pads in the spill over from my refugium/skimmer section and i dont use filter socks because the sump i have the socks are crazy expensive its the weird rectangle socks they are like $40 for three of the generic ones on amazon just simply cant afford that. is that enough filtration because it feels a bit underwhelming tbh? anything i should buy and add to the sump for more filtration? its fish only right now but im moving to reef soon so advice on reef filtration is prefered.

What are your parameters/ nutrient levels? If they are too high then you might need to add filtration if other changes don't fix the problem... But no one can say what your tank needs just from what you shared ..

 

[AKG]

You can buy polyfill sheets at hobby lobby or Michaels for cheap, a few dollars could easily fill a whole sump.....


Personally I'd just run more bio media if you aren't already or run more live rock.

Filter rollers are awesome but my biggest quip is 90% of the ocean's biomass is composed of bacteria and eukaryotes, prokaryotes.

So, how can removing all that all the time be good for the water?

There's a certain point where I think your rock sustains one, but think, are you removing good bacteria? Fish are high metabolism so fish poop is still very high nutrients. Lots of corals eat it. Imo you have enough rock in the tank that if you already have a skimmer going I wouldn't bother with more filtration. You can skim wetter if you want but to be honest I wouldn't even run a skimmer more than a few hours a day depending on the size, tops, in order to allow bacteria to replenish.


Just my opinion. But if you don't want to buy socks I'd definitely look into polyfill as a solution.

 

[ARGYGANG]

What are your parameters/ nutrient levels? If they are too high then you might need to add filtration if other changes don't fix the problem... But no one can say what your tank needs just from what you shared ..

lightly stocked nutrients are fine my refugium takes care of most of it, nitrates stay around 10 ppm. just wondering if thats really all you generally need for a tank to work just fine or if i am missing a key piece of filtration.

 

[ARGYGANG]

You can buy polyfill sheets at hobby lobby or Michaels for cheap, a few dollars could easily fill a whole sump.....


Personally I'd just run more bio media if you aren't already or run more live rock.

Filter rollers are awesome but my biggest quip is 90% of the ocean's biomass is composed of bacteria and eukaryotes, prokaryotes.

So, how can removing all that all the time be good for the water?

There's a certain point where I think your rock sustains one, but think, are you removing good bacteria? Fish are high metabolism so fish poop is still very high nutrients. Lots of corals eat it. Imo you have enough rock in the tank that if you already have a skimmer going I wouldn't bother with more filtration. You can skim wetter if you want but to be honest I wouldn't even run a skimmer more than a few hours a day depending on the size, tops, in order to allow bacteria to replenish.


Just my opinion. But if you don't want to buy socks I'd definitely look into polyfill as a solution.

you are saying just buy that pollyfill and shove it where the socks normally are? is there a specific brand to use? anything to be aware of with using it?

 

[AKG]

you are saying just buy that pollyfill and shove it where the socks normally are? is there a specific brand to use? anything to be aware of with using it?

It's a polyester mesh sheet that looks like fleece, you would jam it in the base of your sump and change it out every 3 days religiously.

 

[AKG]

you are saying just buy that pollyfill and shove it where the socks normally are? is there a specific brand to use? anything to be aware of with using it?

It basically is what they use to fill blankets and pillows.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

lightly stocked nutrients are fine my refugium takes care of most of it, nitrates stay around 10 ppm. just wondering if thats really all you generally need for a tank to work just fine or if i am missing a key piece of filtration.

Then you are fine. Don't add more filtration *just* to add more filtration... Monitor your tank and if you need to add (or remove) something, then make a change.
FWIW, I would NOT recommend running the skimmer only a few hours a day like AKG suggested... Skimmers provide a significant amount of oxygenation in our tanks.

 

[ARGYGANG]

Then you are fine. Don't add more filtration *just* to add more filtration... Monitor your tank and if you need to add (or remove) something, then make a change.
FWIW, I would NOT recommend running the skimmer only a few hours a day like AKG suggested... Skimmers provide a significant amount of oxygenation in our tanks.

yeah my skimmer is staying on 24/7, and okay thanks for the info.

 

[AKG]

Then you are fine. Don't add more filtration *just* to add more filtration... Monitor your tank and if you need to add (or remove) something, then make a change.
FWIW, I would NOT recommend running the skimmer only a few hours a day like AKG suggested... Skimmers provide a significant amount of oxygenation in our tanks.

I agree with everything you said but if op wants to add more filtration then op should consider doing less skimming to compensate. It's pretty common practice to not run your skimmer 24/7 if you understand and can monitor your pH.

The reason being is a couple fold:

1: Over 90% of ocean biomass is bacteria and eukaryotic life under 100 microns diameter skimmers DO filter out this life. So giving them time to replenish after a life cycle is a good idea, not a bad one. Leaving a skimmer on 24/7 (especially if op had other forms of filtration going on) defeats this purpose and forms a nutrient desert for filter feeding corals, which typically take a full day to feed. Giving them a window to filter feed longer than a hour isn't a bad idea.

2: Based on coral filter feeding alone, having a schedule, while not ideal for most reefers, is entirely possible and easily managed.

3. Oxygen content in your tank actually is only there to sustain stable pH and support your fish. Everything else in the tank uses CO2. Pushing oxygen forcefully into your tank is counterintuitive to coral growth and of you aren't measuring the O2 content of your water, this advice does more harm than good because now not only have you used a tool to reduce nutrients, but you used the same tool to make it several magnitudes harder for those corals to do the necessary ion exchange to expel their own waste Oxygen into the water. I fully agree that O2 is important, but higher than a average O2 is detrimental to corals. Your pH can be fine and you can have low oxygen in the tank. Honestly just measure the oxygen and compare it to your coral growth and you'll see what I mean over time, but if you are dosing correctly for coral export you can't be having pH swings to the extent that they kill themselves over it, it's simply impossible because corals are exporting oxygen and importing CO2, so high coral density that is properly managed actually raises your in tank stability because coral growth will slow to compensate for the ability to have the Oxygen ion exchange happen to begin with as a result of more coral in the water and more Oxygen in the water

4. If common advice is changing filter floss every 3 days, why isn't common advice only running a skimmer every 3 days? You and I both know that the turnover in the skimmer is more than enough to handle the entire water column multiple times over, so really you're just leaving nutrients on the table if your food hasn't even decomposed yet and you could just stir it up with a pump for your filter feeders again and save some money.

5. Running a skimmer 24/7 is a common choice among reefers but it's not necessary and to be honest you'll probably find many people doing this are on the dry side of dry skimming and still turn off their skimmer for feedings etc.

6. You can do what you want to but if your goal is to oxygenate your tank then a protein skimmer is solving one problem and creating another. If you don't have enough oxygen in your tank without a protein skimmer, you probably don't have enough flow in your tank, as most corals require flow to be fed properly because their nematocysts are what grab food from the column and have to be inverted into the flow to grab anything to begin with. Goniopora for example have a weak sting and thus need lower flow on part of the coral in order to obtain food properly, unless you directly feed them.

7. I'm not out to be a Boogeyman but sometimes using logic can lead us to genuinely better reefs than setting and forgetting. Plenty of people do okay running skimmers 24/7, but 24/7 wet vs dry are totally different worlds and that's up to the reefer themselves to draw their own conclusions and opinions. My thought is if you're getting a lot of turnover just through the skimmer, it's probably on the extreme side. You can feed heavier to compensate for all the thing above, but let's be honest if the fish poo lacked the same nitrogen that it had as food, why does it make such good fertilizer?

People overfeed their tanks and they have too little coral to consume, "detritus", and or they refuse to stir it up.

Look, if some detritus in a corner is gonna destroy your tank in terms of a parameter, maybe you just are:

A. Lazy
B. Dealing with not enough flow.
C. Overfeeding
D. Some combination of the three.

Stirring up detritus regularly is essential to good opportunity to remove decomposing waste from the column and feed filter feeders.

I'm not here to have a pretty tank 24/7 so I don't run any skimmers and I don't change my water and I don't run anything in my 40b besides a handful of polyfill in a tidal 55 and I grow decent SPS and LPS and softies in extreme flow.

There's more than one way to reef but if I had to err on one side, I'd rather have enough nutrients, bacteria, and stuff in the column than not enough, and the tank looks good for it even as a barebottom. Same with the 29g.


I think people are overcomplicating this hobby and they really need to begin looking at the corals differently.

If you brush your teeth everyday, you might still get cavities, but your teeth will be healthy.

If you don't brush your teeth everyday, you can still have healthy teeth but you'll never get a cavity if you focus on a diet that is low in carbohydrates. Many ancient cultures, for example, had way less tooth problems than we do today.

Yet, the stuff that came out the other end is still poop by anyone's definition.

Just look at your food chain and ask yourself if you think those nutrients can be reused. If the answer is yes, and you're getting a lot of them, how is this poop going to waste and not entering my corals before it decomposes?

These are the questions we need to be asking ourselves to take the hobby to the next level. Removing waste excessively is a human solution to a problem humans created.


Sorry for the long post but I genuinely felt passionate about explaining my reasoning for this and I appreciate you taking the time to see my reasoning here.

Tl;Dr,

Skimmer scheduling ? It depends. But you shouldn't need to skim 24/7.