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Fin rot and now cloudy eyes!

vetteguy53081

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Fin rot is generally associated with a bacterial infection brought on by poor water conditions. The most common symptoms of this condition includes reddening or fraying of the fins and in some cases, the infection may lead to total destruction of the fin. The key to treating this disease is to halt its progression before the fins are totally destroyed by Removing any affected fish to a quarantine tank and begin treatment with an anti-bacterial medication.
Frequent water changes to improve water quality in the tank will also be key. The eye issue may be from water quality issues also. Focus on ammoiunia and Nitrate and increase oxygen if possible.
I have no faith in ammonia Badge and would encourage you to take a water sample to a trusted LFS and verify the readings and to compare with the badge.
 

mstoneman17

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Cloudy eyes can be a general sign of poor fish health, it may well just be because they are suffering. Prime is very safe. I often use it even when adding a new fish, just in case :) one cap per 50 gallons, assuming levels are good. :) Helps if you mix it in water before adding to the tank, though I have skipped this step quite a few times.
+1 to what vette said, if you take your water in to be tested make sure to take a sampe before dosing the tank with prime or you'll get an invalid result!
 
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siniang

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He's eating though. Could he be slimming despite eating?
Definitely.
Would that be concerning at this point? I'm so terrified I'm gonna lose him :(

He's eating and doing humu things, though this afternoon he seems a little more jumpy. Not sure if that's because of the eyes impacting his vision/perception or if he's deteriorating.

Cloudy eyes can be a general sign of poor fish health, it may well just be because they are suffering.
Would his behavior change when he's in poor health/suffering, though?

I have no faith in ammonia Badge and would encourage you to take a water sample to a trusted LFS and verify the readings and to compare with the badge.
Prime is very safe. I often use it even when adding a new fish, just in case
Ok, I'll start dosing Prime just in case I can't rely on the badge. Better safe than sorry, if it's not gonna hurt. Unless it'll interact/impact the Furan somehow?

Please, does anyone know?

Edit: Can't take the water in to be tested. No LFS around. Wrong island. The other fish (lawnmower blenny) is doing perfectly fine.

I'm very certain by now he's lost weight. Quite a bit. I don't know how much over what time-frame, but I definitely notice it today.

I've been so terrified by that report where the triggerfish were slimming and developed cloudy eyes suddenly and were dead within 48 hrs.

These seem to be hallmark symptoms of the infection taking over.

Please, anyone with any experience with this. I really appreciate your thoughts!

@Jay Hemdal ?
 
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vetteguy53081

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Would that be concerning at this point? I'm so terrified I'm gonna lose him :(

He's eating and doing humu things, though this afternoon he seems a little more jumpy. Not sure if that's because of the eyes impacting his vision/perception or if he's deteriorating.



Would his behavior change when he's in poor health/suffering, though?




Ok, I'll start dosing Prime just in case I can't rely on the badge. Better safe than sorry, if it's not gonna hurt. Unless it'll interact/impact the Furan somehow?

Please, does anyone know?

Edit: Can't take the water in to be tested. No LFS around. Wrong island. The other fish (lawnmower blenny) is doing perfectly fine.

I'm very certain by now he's lost weight. Quite a bit. I don't know how much over what time-frame, but I definitely notice it today.

I've been so terrified by that report where the triggerfish were slimming and developed cloudy eyes suddenly and were dead within 48 hrs.

These seem to be hallmark symptoms of the infection taking over.

Please, anyone with any experience with this. I really appreciate your thoughts!

@Jay Hemdal ?
Dilute the prime before adding. Should not counteract with Furan.
 
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siniang

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Could it cause him to burn excessive energy fighting the infection (i.e. him slimming) while the infection is "merely" on his tail fin? (well, obviously now his eyes, too). Or would it indicate internal infection as well?

I don't know enough about fish biology.

I just checked with my friend who studied humus for her PhD and she said if he was stressed he would pale in color. His color is fine at least as of now, and has been the entire time.
 

mstoneman17

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The best thing you can do if he is thinning is ramp up your feeding regime. Triggers love to eat, if you can get some fresh squid and shrimp clams anything saltwater I imagine he will like that.
You can overfeed while you are giving the tank prime, and yes just mix the prime in with some clean water before adding it to the tank, or with a water change is even better.
 
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siniang

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and yes just mix the prime in with some clean water before adding it to the tank, or with a water change is even better.
So, just to make sure. I'll stick to the recommended 1 cap/50gal ratio, but will "dilute" it in the water I'm going to use for the water change. How longe before putting it in should I dilute it? Should I split it between multiple buckets or could I just dump it all into one 5 gal bucket?
 

mstoneman17

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One bucket is plenty, and just a few minutes and mix it around is perfectly fine. Don't overthink it too much, prime is pretty harmless.
 
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siniang

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Could the effect of the Furan be reduced because I'm treating in my DT with (live) rocks? Does anyone know?
 

vetteguy53081

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Could the effect of the Furan be reduced because I'm treating in my DT with (live) rocks? Does anyone know?
Go 50% and see how it is responding. Regarding slimming, it is stressed with this which will cause thinning. Give it adequate nutrition and even add garlic extract to its foods.
Foods- What are you feeding it ?
 
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siniang

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Go 50% and see how it is responding.
I don't understand? 50% of what?

Tonight will be the 3rd dose of Furan. I'm going by the product instructions, 1 package/10 gal.

Regarding slimming, it is stressed with this which will cause thinning. Give it adequate nutrition and even add garlic extract to its foods.
I just upped his food. He's gonna get some more in a little bit. That will be three cubes today, then. Will add Prime to make sure to keep ammonia in check. Also need to supplement whatever the blenny is snatching.


Foods- What are you feeding it ?
He's getting San Francisco Bay "Carnivore Cuisine" and some frozen krill as "snacks". Which he loves but he hasn't been eating those up these last few days, weirdly. Like he goes crazy when I put them in, but then leaves chunks uneaten (yes, I remove those).

Can one overdose on Prime? Asking because it's hard to dose the right amount with 1 cap/50gal.

Will try to get garlic. Anything I need to consider with the garlic? Like from the grocery store? Pet store? I think I may have seen something at the one pet store today that said "garlic"? Never used garlic with my fish before
 
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siniang

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Regarding slimming, it is stressed with this which will cause thinning
Yes, I understand that, but just between this morning and this afternoon he's lost more weight than over the last 4 days (since the infection started). Like significantly so, enough for me to notice. I already suspected some weight loss this morning as compared to yesterday, but this afternoon it's definite. I can see his cheek bones, now, which wasn't the case this morning.

Which has me worried because it means he's fighting harder than before.
 

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Yes, I understand that, but just between this morning and this afternoon he's lost more weight than over the last 4 days (since the infection started). Like significantly so, enough for me to notice. I already suspected some weight loss this morning as compared to yesterday, but this afternoon it's definite. I can see his cheek bones, now, which wasn't the case this morning.

Which has me worried because it means he's fighting harder than before.
Imo clean water is key to help him as much as possible. Like 50% water changes daily. Prime cant really be overdosed... but if you want to be exact the threads on the cap are actually for measuring as per the bottle fyi.

Also, what filter and media are you using? Maybe take out any carbon and change sponge or floss... it helps.
 
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siniang

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Can I keep adding the appropriate amount of Prime daily from now on for a while as a precaution or only if I get ammonia spikes?

It's not feasible for me to do daily 50% water changes and I don't think I should be doing those daily while dosing Furan, anyways?

@Digitalfirex I already took out the carbon cartridges and the phosphate and ammonia reducer media from my hang-on filters as per medication instructions.
 
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mstoneman17

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Can I keep adding the appropriate amount of Prime daily from now on for a while as a precaution or only if I get ammonia spikes?

It's not feasible for me to do daily 50% water changes and I don't think I should be doing those daily while dosing Furan, anyways?

@Digitalfirex I already took out the carbon cartridges and the phosphate and ammonia reducer media from my hang-on filters as per medication instructions.
It binds ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates for 48 hours, so I every 2 days should be sufficient, but no it will not hurt to do the standard dose daily.
 
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siniang

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Help!

How does infection attacking the body, especially the slime coat look like?

I know Furan-2 is external, so doesn't cross the skin barrier. Does it somehow impact the slime coat?

I just had the weirdest experience with the trigger, I've never seen that before. He regularly is covered in sand particles as he goes sifting through sand for one reason or another. Just now, when he came out of his "sand bath", the particles weren't stuck to his skin as individual particles as usual, but formed actual strings hanging from his body, flowed. I couldn't see anything they would be stuck to such as algae, whatever held them together was transparent. When they finally fell off one by one, they fell off as the string of particles.

Not sure if that was his slime coat falling apart or something else that kinda connected the particles? But what would that be?

It looked like he swam through a spiderweb that was then stuck to his body and had collected sand.

His body looks normal, otherwise. No patches of any color as far as I can see.
 
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siniang

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I'm extremely concerned that I thought he was eating while in fact he actually isn't eating :(

I observed him this morning. He wasn't as eager as he's used to be. He does show general interest in food, hangs out at the glass waiting for me, he's also sifting sand looking for something to eat, but once I put some in, he's not as enthusiastic. He kept taking bites out of the cube and did chew, but kept spitting it out. Not sure if he even ate anything of it. And he shows zero interest in the krill anymore, which he used to love. Not sure how long he's been doing that, no wonder he's been slimming when he isn't actually eating.

He's terribly skinny.

For what it's worth, I don't think his fin has gotten worse nor the eye cloudyness. Not better either, though, though I know the antibiotics take 3-5 days and I just started the 3rd dose Furan yesterday evening.

I know Furan could impact appetite (the blenny is eating fine, though), but could it also impact taste (since he's showing some general appetite)?

#reefsquad @Jay Hemdal
 

Jay Hemdal

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I'm extremely concerned that I thought he was eating while in fact he actually isn't eating :(

I observed him this morning. He wasn't as eager as he's used to be. He does show general interest in food, hangs out at the glass waiting for me, he's also sifting sand looking for something to eat, but once I put some in, he's not as enthusiastic. He kept taking bites out of the cube and did chew, but kept spitting it out. Not sure if he even ate anything of it. And he shows zero interest in the krill anymore, which he used to love. Not sure how long he's been doing that, no wonder he's been slimming when he isn't actually eating.

He's terribly skinny.

For what it's worth, I don't think his fin has gotten worse nor the eye cloudyness. Not better either, though, though I know the antibiotics take 3-5 days and I just started the 3rd dose Furan yesterday evening.

I know Furan could impact appetite (the blenny is eating fine, though), but could it also impact taste (since he's showing some general appetite)?

#reefsquad @Jay Hemdal
I'm sure you understand that when we try to help here, all we have to go on is what is reported to us through text and photos. You had been saying the fish was eating well, and it looked full-bodied in the picture. Now you say it actually isn't eating and looks "terribly skinny". That of course is going to change our perception of the problem!

Can you please post a new picture of the fish?

Thanks,

Jay
 

mstoneman17

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The only good news is he is at least getting the food into his mouth. Some nutrients and vitamins are getting inside of him but it doesn’t sound like it’s near enough. You can try some live feeders with him, maybe ghost shrimp, maybe he will go after that? It isn’t a great long term option, but maybe it will at least get some food in his belly.
 
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