Fish died one day into tank cycle

[TheNative192]

I would deff cycle with fritz and use DR. Tim's ammonia chloride I just cycled a 100g system in 9 days but I also had a ton more rock but I had good success with Fritz and the ammonia method.

See what I do is buy every beneficial bacteria product so that way I make my cycle go super fast since thats totally how it works . I added Microbacter 7 Microbater Start Seachem Stability, Tims one & only and my cycle only lasted 6 days I did add my Ammonia back up to 2ppm to double check & it dropped within a day too lol

 

[Reefering1]

See what I do is buy every beneficial bacteria product so that way I make my cycle go super fast since thats totally how it works . I added Microbacter 7 Microbater Start Seachem Stability, Tims one & only and my cycle only lasted 6 days I did add my Ammonia back up to 2ppm to double check & it dropped within a day too lol

Edit. -misread

 

[Fish Fan]

Not sure where some get their info and question the LFS as well. Fish in cycles are cruel to the animals. No way around it period. They get ammonia burns on their gills. Some may survive but may not be healthy long term. Others just die from ammonia poisoning. With all the simple cycling tools available now, it makes no sense at all to do fish in cycles. There are multiple things that could have caused the OP situation here and some of you already highlighted them but I can guarantee those fish weren't happy being tossed into that new uncycled tank and that LFS is giving put bad info for a new reefer.

I don't disagree one bit about not doing fish-in cycles, I don't do them, or recommend them, and there's no reason to do it that way. But I have posted above some numbers from RHF, and he's now advising that burned gills isn't a concern until the ammonia concentration hits about 5 ppm to 10 ppm at a pH of 8.1, and that toxic levels need to be around 15 ppm. From RHF's Ammonia is Our Frind article I linked above:

1. While ammonia is toxic at high levels, the levels needed to be lethal to a marine fish are higher than many people think. I’ve not seen any study in the literature that shows an LC50 (half of fish die) in less than 15 ppm total ammonia in seawater over 4 days or more of exposure at normal pH.

2. Sublethal toxic effects of ammonia, such as gill lesions observed by histopathology, do not seem to become significant until levels reach 5-10 ppm total ammonia at pH 8.1.

 

[MODZISTER]

See what I do is buy every beneficial bacteria product so that way I make my cycle go super fast since thats totally how it works . I added Microbacter 7 Microbater Start Seachem Stability, Tims one & only and my cycle only lasted 6 days I did add my Ammonia back up to 2ppm to double check & it dropped within a day too lol

Any bacteria is better than no bacteria. I never used Fritz before until now and it worked well we always used Bio Spira 10yrs ago. I dose Microbacter 7 everyday stuff is fantastic.

 

[TheNative192]

Any bacteria is better than no bacteria. I never used Fritz before until now and it worked well we always used Bio Spira 10yrs ago. I dose Microbacter 7 everyday stuff is fantastic.

See I had stability left over from my other tanks so I was like might as well use this but then I was like oh its kind of low so let me get another one on Amazon so I microbacter 7. Then I find out that they actually have Microbacter start for starting the cycle so I then order that and when I was up at a different fish store up north they had Dr Tims one & only and since I used that for my first cycle I was like can't hurt whats another 15 dollars lol.

 

[bluemon]

I assumed the salt was dissolved bud.
Nor am I trying to make you out as cruel. But unless that was actual liverock/sand added, I think its bad advice to add 6 fish on day two. 1 damsel, maybe. But 6 is excessive, imo.
Im suggesting that it wasn't good advice, not beating you up for following it.

Sorry, it feels like I’m being eviscerated for following instructions. I was given that I also was given on my previous tank that is doing well. I have about six 25 pound bags of live sand and about 25 pounds of live rock in the tank. Not just water and salt.

That is way too little live rock.

The “cardinal” rule is 1-1.5 lbs per gallon.

So in your tank, something like 125-200 lbs although you can go less if you need a certain minimalistic scape.

I get you are frustrated but you can only go forward so I wouldn’t worry about your other tank.

Even if you did a fish-in cycle there, some fish do survive; but just because it worked once doesn’t mean it will again, nor that it is the “right method”.

Can you list your equipment here as well? Again, a FTS (full tank shot) picture will do WAY more than just describing things in words

Edit: NVM on the pictures, looks like I missed them.

Yes way too little rock.

The stress of adding 6 new fish without any hiding places definitely could have contributed to the death amongst the other good suggestions

 

[bluemon]

So, now that I have the movement, what do I do? I can’t add the fish in with the readings where they are. So leave them in QT, cycle the tank then add them?

Doing the taboo double post as I want to ping the OP on some important points.

What you do from here depends on what you really want from this tank.

If you want to keep a reef with corals, I would drain the tank and start over with RODI water and not tap water. You will have A LOT OF PROBLEMS if you use tap water. Plus add in rocks

If you want to keep a predator tank with no corals, I would add in a LOT of rock.

You need a lot of rock not to just diffuse aggression between fish, but to filter through all the waste the fish produce. Predatory fish produce a lot more waste, and you will probably not be able to keep up with a canister filter. You will probably need a skimmer at some point for the higher bioload.

So what do you want to do in terms of livestock?

 

[Lavey29]

I don't disagree one bit about not doing fish-in cycles, I don't do them, or recommend them, and there's no reason to do it that way. But I have posted above some numbers from RHF, and he's now advising that burned gills isn't a concern until the ammonia concentration hits about 5 ppm to 10 ppm at a pH of 8.1, and that toxic levels need to be around 15 ppm. From RHF's Ammonia is Our Frind article I linked above:

1. While ammonia is toxic at high levels, the levels needed to be lethal to a marine fish are higher than many people think. I’ve not seen any study in the literature that shows an LC50 (half of fish die) in less than 15 ppm total ammonia in seawater over 4 days or more of exposure at normal pH.

2. Sublethal toxic effects of ammonia, such as gill lesions observed by histopathology, do not seem to become significant until levels reach 5-10 ppm total ammonia at pH 8.1.

The fish would probably have a different response if they could talk. Bottom line is with the easy bacteria supplements cycling a tank is simple without fish in today's reef aquaria.

 

[Fish Fan]

The fish would probably have a different response if they could talk. Bottom line is with the easy bacteria supplements cycling a tank is simple without fish in today's reef aquaria.

No argument there

 

[Lavey29]

No argument there

But i appreciate you sharing your research and knowledgeable opinion.

 

[Fish Fan]

But i appreciate you sharing your research and knowledgeable opinion.

That's very kind, especially coming from you, but all appreciation should rightly go to RHF, all this means for me is that I know how to read

Thanks for the reply!

 

[Reef Jedi]

After reading all the posts the best advise I can give at this point is read all of @Fish Fan advise. It’s everything I too would have advised and is good information. It can sometimes be a very frustrating hobby especially with a new set up.

Using tap water with a water conditioner could be a cause for the loss. There is too many contaminants in regular tap water for saltwater fish. They just don’t do well with it and water conditioners can only do so much and in most cases not enough.

For long term happiness of salty friends it is best advised to use an RO machine to produce quality water. You don’t have to spend a fortune on one, you can pick up a decent 4 stage for a good price.

Also at the end of the day, I think all members on Reef2Reef have very good intentions in the responses they give. There is a reason this is the best and most trusted source for anything salty. As an R2R community member who is on every day to help others, this experience is not what I typically see. I’d hope you stick around to see how truly great this community is and learn as much as you can from it. There is so much good experience and advice in these forums and as a reefer with 25 years in this hobby I’m still learning new things on here.

Don’t give up, keep at it and at this point. Throw some fritz turbostart 900 in and get that cycle done!

 

[Lavey29]

That's very kind, especially coming from you, but all appreciation should rightly go to RHF, all this means for me is that I know how to read

Thanks for the reply!

But that brings up a good point, reading....this hobby is beautiful because every tank is unique and everyone has their vision of how their perfect tank should look but there is such a huge amount of info online such as on this site, you really need to do your reading to keep up with the latest techniques, etc... so reading is an important element in this hobby.

 

[Fish Fan]

After reading all the posts the best advise I can give at this point is read all of @Fish Fan advise. It’s everything I too would have advised and is good information. It can sometimes be a very frustrating hobby especially with a new set up.

Thank you, I much appreciate that! I'm glad you though that I was helpful Definitely a lot of knowledgeable reefers here besides me also offering great advice too

 

[Fish Fan]

But that brings up a good point, reading....this hobby is beautiful because every tank is unique and everyone has their vision of how their perfect tank should look but there is such a huge amount of info online such as on this site, you really need to do your reading to keep up with the latest techniques, etc... so reading is an important element in this hobby.

Definitely true! And I like to learn from guys like Randy and many of the other real experts here on R2R, there's a lot of great reefers right in this thread, including yourself

 

[MODZISTER]

Let me say this. I would not abandoned this forum your always gonna get some harsh comments atleast they might come off that way but people mean well here and want everybody to succeed. There's multiple ways to do things in this hobby but cycling a tank correctly from the beginning will only lead to better results in the future.

I joined this forum back in 2014 almost 12yrs ago at this point before I even started in this hobby I spent 2 -3 yrs doing research and I still messed up a lot and always came back here for advice. This is a great community and almost 99% of the time I would trust the advice I'm given here. If you can try to only follow advice as a whole from 1 person and not from multiple sources and not from an LFS trying to sell you a ton of fish with a tank that only had water in it for 24hrs you will have a way better experience in this hobby.

 

[stE26wy14]

just cause an immediate fish In cycle works once, doesnt mean it'll work again. especially for bigger tanks, u may need to cycle a little bit longer before putting in fish. in my 10, I had a pair after a week, but then 1 died, and I then put 1 other clown in, then died, then I kept in with 1 clown for nearly a year. but then the 1 clown died, and I added a bonded pair, and a goby. I never really had problems...

u need to cycle...

NEEED!!
what u did was just irresponsible. hope u fully understand that and will take a couple weeks to a month to SLOWLY progressively add in fish. and dont add 6 fish at one, and I would be careful with 6 damsels, especially if one is a tomato clown(being the most aggressive clown species). u should hold the remaining fish in the qt, wait a couple weeks, add in 1-3 of the peaceful fish u want, after a couple of weeks, add the other peaceful fish, wait about a month, add in more. and just continue that cycle. the process of adding fish ALWAYS goes peaceful-medium-aggressive. those damsels would have probably obliterated some of the peaceful fish along the line.
patience is key

and if it worked once, doesnt mean it'll work again

again, sorry for ur losses

 

[Gumbies R Us]

I'm not going to offer really any advice here, haha. Just wanted to say you are in good hands with the members of our community! It's ok to mess up in this hobby; we all have done it before. If we were all perfect reefer, we wouldn't have discussions like this one, haha. Just know our community means well, and we always try to offer the best help we can. If you felt like you were being attacked that is never the goal on here! We are just very passionate about this hobby and want everyone to strive to become the best reef keeper!

 

[FishLvR]

I was going to jump all over you guys for feeding an obvious troll, but then checked OP's history on the site. Which brought me to another thought. Maybe sometimes, this hobby is not for everyone. I could even be one of those people considering my failures. At what point do you just say, well I tried, then get a hamster or something?

OP your LFS is horrid. Get a new one. Stay here and you will get conflicting but helpful advice. Also patience is a virtue that many strive for, but often fail.

 

[stE26wy14]

I was going to jump all over you guys for feeding an obvious troll, but then checked OP's history on the site. Which brought me to another thought. Maybe sometimes, this hobby is not for everyone. I could even be one of those people considering my failures. At what point do you just say, well I tried, then get a hamster or something?

OP your LFS is horrid. Get a new one. Stay here and you will get conflicting but helpful advice. Also patience is a virtue that many strive for, but often fail.

sorry
but thats horrible advice

you learn from your mistakes, u dont quit right after. I got last in my tournament on Sunday. which kills me. I know what I did wrong, I got advice, and now I am working exclusively on fixing those mistakes, I didnt stop, I didnt switch sports or disciplines. I stayed, cause I learn from my mistakes

op should learn too.