Fish died one day into tank cycle

[Mbernal]

Evening everyone,

Sad news out of my home today. I set up my 125 gallon SW tank to cycle. After adding salt and sand my LFS confirmed i was ready to add hardy fish to help cycle the tank. For the record, i did the same with my 55 gallon following their guidance and that tank has been thriving. So, Sunday I add 5 Damsels and one Tomato clown. Everyone is good, fish are swimming and eating. Monday rolls around, still good. I test the water and get the following: Salinity 1.023, Ammonia 0 Nitrates 0 PH 8.2 temp 79F KH 11. The VERY next morning (today), all but two of my fish are dead. One of the living ones is struggling near the top of the tank and the other is just sitting at the bottom. I quickly move them to my QT tank and they IMMEDIATELY come fully back to life, color and all. I reach out to my LFS and tell them what happened and we determine that i didn't have nearly enough flow in the tank for gas exchange. This seemed like the most logical explanation considering the readings from the night before. BUT, when i got home from work today i decided to test the water and found that my Nitrates were already hitting 0.50ppm or higher and Nitrites were registering as well. This is literally after having the fish in there for ONE day. It doesn't make sense.

For reference i used tap water for the tank, and treated it with aqualife complete water conditioner. In the tank is live sand and 4 live rocks. I cannot figure out what the heck happened! Anyone have any idea what i should look at here?

 

[bluemon]

I suggest avoiding that LFS, or at least their advice and do your research.

Adding fish during the first week of a new tank when it is cycling means certain fish death.

Most fish will not survive the ammonia spike.

Please do some independent research.

Your LFS is more than happy to sell you fish that will die so you will come back for more.

Also, unless your rocks are HUGE, four rocks in a 125 gallon is NOT enough for biological filtration.

Do you have any pictures? Are your rocks actually live rock?

Just insane how you don’t know how the nitrogen cycle works yet you have a QT?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Evening everyone,

Sad news out of my home today. I set up my 125 gallon SW tank to cycle. After adding salt and sand my LFS confirmed i was ready to add hardy fish to help cycle the tank. For the record, i did the same with my 55 gallon following their guidance and that tank has been thriving. So, Sunday I add 5 Damsels and one Tomato clown. Everyone is good, fish are swimming and eating. Monday rolls around, still good. I test the water and get the following: Salinity 1.023, Ammonia 0 Nitrates 0 PH 8.2 temp 79F KH 11. The VERY next morning (today), all but two of my fish are dead. One of the living ones is struggling near the top of the tank and the other is just sitting at the bottom. I quickly move them to my QT tank and they IMMEDIATELY come fully back to life, color and all. I reach out to my LFS and tell them what happened and we determine that i didn't have nearly enough flow in the tank for gas exchange. This seemed like the most logical explanation considering the readings from the night before. BUT, when i got home from work today i decided to test the water and found that my Nitrates were already hitting 0.50ppm or higher and Nitrites were registering as well. This is literally after having the fish in there for ONE day. It doesn't make sense.

For reference i used tap water for the tank, and treated it with aqualife complete water conditioner. In the tank is live sand and 4 live rocks. I cannot figure out what the heck happened! Anyone have any idea what i should look at here?

Your tank is cycled when your ammonia is zero for 5 days and nitrate is 20 or below. Also use quality test kits to do testing and not Api which often has testing error and disregard nitrite which is freshwater specific.
Add a couple of fish to start with and stock slowly allowing biological filter to keep up with new loads. Run salinity at least 1.024 and 77-78 degrees

 

[Euphyllia098]

You don't cycle a new tank with fish unless your starting it with established rock or substrate.

 

[NanoSteam]

There's quite a bit wrong here, like bluemon suggested do your own research before going back out there, watch some youtube videos and there's a lot of great references here on R2R and articles in Reef Builders.

I would completely avoid using tap water although you'll hear some success stories but the odds are not in your favor of your tap being completely clean of heavy metals and things that are harsh on fish and corals. You may have been also successful with the 55 but it only takes one day for your local water supplier to start adding a new additive or change something.

Look at simple RODI systems, they don't need to break the bank, but at your size tank I would shoot for something that does 100gpd so you can efficiently make your salt.

Next all fish out and do a fishless cycle by adding something like Fritz Turbo start, Dr. Tims one and only etc. test for ammonia if it's already present from what just had happened then great otherwise you'll need an ammonia source like a piece of grocery shrimp or ammonium chloride from Dr. Tims. You'll test until you see Ammonia drop to 0.

This should get you on the right path.

 

[FUNGI]

Not completely accurate:
Adding fish during the first week of a new tank when it is cycling means certain fish death.

 

[Reefering1]

Not completely accurate:
Adding fish during the first week of a new tank when it is cycling means certain fish death.

How about adding 6 fish immediately after there is water and sand?

Not sure what you're trying to defend?

 

[FUNGI]

How about adding 6 fish immediately after there is water and sand?

Not sure what you're trying to defend?

not defending anything.....just pointing out inaccuracies......
and yes, thats the way I have cycled all my tanks....

 

[Reefering1]

not defending anything.....just pointing out inaccuracies......
and yes, thats the way I have cycled all my tanks....

I don't disagree that its not guaranteed death. But there's no reason to expose fish to the ammonia these days. Some see it as cruel.
And regardless, 6 fish at once into a un cycled tank is certainly a bad idea

 

[BryanM]

Sad to hear.

There's better ways to start a tank, and most of us are not fans of fish in cycle for this exact reason.

 

[Mr. Mojo Rising]

Tap water and taking LFS advise is not a good start to the hobby. The LFS knows there is a very good chance the fish will die in a new uncycled tank, they will happily sell you more. Even if the fish does survive the cycle it might leave the fish with ammonia burns to the gills. Adding 6 fish at once in a new tank, even if the tank was cycled, is too much too fast. Need to give the bacteria time to multiply and handle the bioload before adding new additions. We have to respect the animals we keep. Anyway good you found this website and hopefully you’ll take advise from this forum instead of LFS advise.

 

[Fish Fan]

Let's maybe not turn this into a philosophical debate, and try to address the OP's issues

While I'm against a fish-in cycle myself, what's done is done at this point. The OP added 6 fish to 125 gallons of water, and in no way did the ammonia build to toxic levels in 24 hours with that water volume. Further, all these fish are ammonia hardy, and exactly what we used to fish-in cycle tanks back before fish-less paradigms were popular.

Here's some real info on ammonia toxicity from RHF that may help:
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/ammonia-is-our-friend.1062/
From the above:
1. While ammonia is toxic at high levels, the levels needed to be lethal to a marine fish are higher than many people think. I’ve not seen any study in the literature that shows an LC50 (half of fish die) in less than 15 ppm total ammonia in seawater over 4 days or more of exposure at normal pH.

2. Sublethal toxic effects of ammonia, such as gill lesions observed by histopathology, do not seem to become significant until levels reach 5-10 ppm total ammonia at pH 8.1.

Evening everyone,

Sad news out of my home today. I set up my 125 gallon SW tank to cycle. After adding salt and sand my LFS confirmed i was ready to add hardy fish to help cycle the tank. For the record, i did the same with my 55 gallon following their guidance and that tank has been thriving. So, Sunday I add 5 Damsels and one Tomato clown. Everyone is good, fish are swimming and eating. Monday rolls around, still good. I test the water and get the following: Salinity 1.023, Ammonia 0 Nitrates 0 PH 8.2 temp 79F KH 11. The VERY next morning (today), all but two of my fish are dead. One of the living ones is struggling near the top of the tank and the other is just sitting at the bottom. I quickly move them to my QT tank and they IMMEDIATELY come fully back to life, color and all. I reach out to my LFS and tell them what happened and we determine that i didn't have nearly enough flow in the tank for gas exchange. This seemed like the most logical explanation considering the readings from the night before. BUT, when i got home from work today i decided to test the water and found that my Nitrates were already hitting 0.50ppm or higher and Nitrites were registering as well. This is literally after having the fish in there for ONE day. It doesn't make sense.

For reference i used tap water for the tank, and treated it with aqualife complete water conditioner. In the tank is live sand and 4 live rocks. I cannot figure out what the heck happened! Anyone have any idea what i should look at here?

I'm sorry about your losses. I would be looking towards low oxygen or perhaps a disease.

How are you testing your water, what kits are you using? The slight nitrate you are seeing may just be test kit error. I would suggest that you don't even bother testing for nitrite, it's not toxic in marine aquaria (unlike in freshwater). Again, from RHF:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/nitrite-toxicity.402708/#post-4805029
Are the fish in the QT now, and do they still seem fine?

 

[Mbernal]

How about adding 6 fish immediately after there is water and sand?

Not sure what you're trying to defend?

I added the fish after the salt was dissolved and tank was running for a full day. This is what I was told to do with my previous tank and that tank is doing well. I didn’t just throw in sand and water and ad the fish in. Jesus.

 

[Mbernal]

Let's maybe not turn this into a philosophical debate, and try to address the OP's issues

While I'm against a fish-in cycle myself, what's done is done at this point. The OP added 6 fish to 125 gallons of water, and in no way did the ammonia build to toxic levels in 24 hours with that water volume. Further, all these fish are ammonia hardy, and exactly what we used to fish-in cycle tanks back before fish-less paradigms were popular.

Here's some real info on ammonia toxicity from RHF that may help:
https://www.reef2reef.com/ams/ammonia-is-our-friend.1062/
From the above:
1. While ammonia is toxic at high levels, the levels needed to be lethal to a marine fish are higher than many people think. I’ve not seen any study in the literature that shows an LC50 (half of fish die) in less than 15 ppm total ammonia in seawater over 4 days or more of exposure at normal pH.

2. Sublethal toxic effects of ammonia, such as gill lesions observed by histopathology, do not seem to become significant until levels reach 5-10 ppm total ammonia at pH 8.1.


I'm sorry about your losses. I would be looking towards low oxygen or perhaps a disease.

How are you testing your water, what kits are you using? The slight nitrate you are seeing may just be test kit error. I would suggest that you don't even bother testing for nitrite, it's not toxic in marine aquaria (unlike in freshwater). Again, from RHF:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/nitrite-toxicity.402708/#post-4805029
Are the fish in the QT now, and do they still seem fine?

Thank you so much for offering to help and not jumping down my throat. All these responses have done is stress me out even more. I literally did to this tank what I did to my previous one. The fish in QT are fine, full color, active and eating.

I understand how the cycle process works which is why I am seeking help. I got hardy fish that I was told were good for fish in cycles. I am using and API kit to test the parameters. I have tested it and there is no ammonia at all. Nitrate and nitrites but no ammonia.

I’m at a loss and honestly feeling like leaving this forum with the responses I’ve gotten. I’m learn and quite upset about the losses.

 

[FUNGI]

I don't disagree that its not guaranteed death. But there's no reason to expose fish to the ammonia these days. Some see it as cruel.
And regardless, 6 fish at once into a un cycled tank is certainly a bad idea

Now that, I can agree on.....

 

[Mbernal]

Tap water and taking LFS advise is not a good start to the hobby. The LFS knows there is a very good chance the fish will die in a new uncycled tank, they will happily sell you more. Even if the fish does survive the cycle it might leave the fish with ammonia burns to the gills. Adding 6 fish at once in a new tank, even if the tank was cycled, is too much too fast. Need to give the bacteria time to multiply and handle the bioload before adding new additions. We have to respect the animals we keep. Anyway good you found this website and hopefully you’ll take advise from this forum instead of LFS advise.

My LFS literally won’t sell me fish unless my water is acceptable. They value the lives of the fish just as I do. The tank is large and the fish I added are ammonia hardy and small. I did the same with my 55 gallon, added 2 clowns and come hermits and it is still thriving.

 

[Reefering1]

I added the fish after the salt was dissolved and tank was running for a full day. This is what I was told to do with my previous tank and that tank is doing well. I didn’t just throw in sand and water and ad the fish in. Jesus.

I assumed the salt was dissolved bud.
Nor am I trying to make you out as cruel. But unless that was actual liverock/sand added, I think its bad advice to add 6 fish on day two. 1 damsel, maybe. But 6 is excessive, imo.
Im suggesting that it wasn't good advice, not beating you up for following it.

 

[Fish Fan]

Thank you so much for offering to help and not jumping down my throat. All these responses have done is stress me the hell out even more. I literally did to this tank what I did to my previous one. The fish in QT are fine, full color, active and eating.

I understand how the cycle process works which is why I am seeking help. I got hardy fish that I was told were good for fish in cycles. I am using and API kit to test the parameters. I have tested it and there is no ammonia at all. Nitrate and nitrites but no ammonia.

I’m at a loss and honestly feeling like leaving this forum with the responses I’ve gotten. I’m learn and quite upset about the losses.

I see that you're upset. Please know that all the replies are very well meaning Most of us here would do it differently, but doing a fish-in cycle is "a thing", and you've got the right fish for it if you're going to do it.

It's not possible to register nitrite or nitrate without seeing something for ammonia, unless you used so much real, wet live rock from your fish store that your tank is basically instal-cycled, and if so, then all the talk about adding fish is moot. What kind of rocks did you use? Could you post a pic of the tank? Sometimes that tells us a lot

 

[Mbernal]

I assumed the salt was dissolved bud.
Nor am I trying to make you out as cruel. But unless that was actual liverock/sand added, I think its bad advice to add 6 fish on day two. 1 damsel, maybe. But 6 is excessive, imo.
Im suggesting that it wasn't good advice, not beating you up for following it.

Sorry, it feels like I’m being eviscerated for following instructions. I was given that I also was given on my previous tank that is doing well. I have about six 25 pound bags of live sand and about 25 pounds of live rock in the tank. Not just water and salt.

 

[FUNGI]

Thank you so much for offering to help and not jumping down my throat. All these responses have done is stress me the hell out even more. I literally did to this tank what I did to my previous one. The fish in QT are fine, full color, active and eating.

I understand how the cycle process works which is why I am seeking help. I got hardy fish that I was told were good for fish in cycles. I am using and API kit to test the parameters. I have tested it and there is no ammonia at all. Nitrate and nitrites but no ammonia.

I’m at a loss and honestly feeling like leaving this forum with the responses I’ve gotten. I’m learn and quite upset about the losses.

Dont stress it too much. IMO, you did what you had experienced before with success.....
Now since the fish are all out (I assume), you can buy all the Fritz stuff and complete your cycle that way, or just throw a raw shrimp in the tank for a awhile and wait a week or so to complete your cycle......what media will you use for filtration? You can throw that into your other tank while you wait for it to get seeded quickly......just IMO.