Fish dying, inverts/corals healthy

[Rainbow_Corral]

Hi all! I am currently at a loss as to what is happening in my tank and hoping someone can bring a fresh perspective. I’ve read several threads on this and none seem to perfectly line up.

I have a 15gal AIO Waterbox that has been up for 4 months, cycled with Microbacter7. 12lbs of dry CaribSea rock, using a mix of live sand and crushed coral for substrate. 100gph return pump, Nero 3 set lowest setting for additional flow (overall about 40x turnover).

after the cycle completed I placed a few blue hermits and snails in the tank. Not a single loss. Placed a Favia, open brain coral, zoas, and a chalice coral - all doing great. I added 3 sexy shrimp, they’re happily swaying away.

I purchased a pearly Jawfish and drip acclimated, added him in. He did well, settled down, looked peaceful. Went to bed and he was still okay. I woke up to find he managed to wiggle into the back thru the filter slots but was still alive. Placed him back into the display but he passed shortly after which I attributed to stress.

I waited another 2 weeks and then added my clownfish from another tank (I’ve had him for 6mo). Both tanks have identical salinity, salt mix, RODI, etc. still I slowly acclimated him as their temps were slightly different (74 vs 78). Added in and he appeared happy and healthy. Woke the next morning, still appeared healthy and he ate. Around noon the next day, less than 24hr after adding, my partner found him on the bottom of the tank gasping and barely keeping himself upright - he passed 20min later.

I had a hard time rationalizing this as he was from my other tank, very few variables were different. This is when I got suspicious. I cleaned out the filter sponges, added purigen in case there was some toxin, did a large water change.

I purchased a new clown 2 weeks later, drip acclimated, added to tank around 2pm and he explored and swam around normally. By 10pm he was on the bottom, gasping, barely moving, and then passed.

this entire time my corals and Inverts have not displayed any signs of stress.


Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: 15gal Nano reef
Filtration type: AIO overflow purigen LR
Lighting: AI Prime 16HD
How long has the aquarium been established? 4mo
Water quality (Salifert for all)
Temperature: 76 (brought down after 1st clown death, was 78)
pH: 8.3
Salinity / specific gravity: 1.024
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Phosphorus: 0

I’ve thought maybe O2 but the water top is disturbed to the point of adding small bubbles into the water, plus going up and over 3 baffles in the back.

What disease would consistently kill within 24 hours and only effect fish?

This tank and my other are on similar routines and use all the same supplements/RODI/salt.. one is thriving, this is not.

I have purchased an O2 Salifert kit to rule that out.. but is my only option a 2 month no fish to rule out disease? I appreciate any input as I don’t want to be a serial fish killer, breaks my heart already to have lost my original clown .

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi all! I am currently at a loss as to what is happening in my tank and hoping someone can bring a fresh perspective. I’ve read several threads on this and none seem to perfectly line up.

I have a 15gal AIO Waterbox that has been up for 4 months, cycled with Microbacter7. 12lbs of dry CaribSea rock, using a mix of live sand and crushed coral for substrate. 100gph return pump, Nero 3 set lowest setting for additional flow (overall about 40x turnover).

after the cycle completed I placed a few blue hermits and snails in the tank. Not a single loss. Placed a Favia, open brain coral, zoas, and a chalice coral - all doing great. I added 3 sexy shrimp, they’re happily swaying away.

I purchased a pearly Jawfish and drip acclimated, added him in. He did well, settled down, looked peaceful. Went to bed and he was still okay. I woke up to find he managed to wiggle into the back thru the filter slots but was still alive. Placed him back into the display but he passed shortly after which I attributed to stress.

I waited another 2 weeks and then added my clownfish from another tank (I’ve had him for 6mo). Both tanks have identical salinity, salt mix, RODI, etc. still I slowly acclimated him as their temps were slightly different (74 vs 78). Added in and he appeared happy and healthy. Woke the next morning, still appeared healthy and he ate. Around noon the next day, less than 24hr after adding, my partner found him on the bottom of the tank gasping and barely keeping himself upright - he passed 20min later.

I had a hard time rationalizing this as he was from my other tank, very few variables were different. This is when I got suspicious. I cleaned out the filter sponges, added purigen in case there was some toxin, did a large water change.

I purchased a new clown 2 weeks later, drip acclimated, added to tank around 2pm and he explored and swam around normally. By 10pm he was on the bottom, gasping, barely moving, and then passed.

this entire time my corals and Inverts have not displayed any signs of stress.


Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: 15gal Nano reef
Filtration type: AIO overflow purigen LR
Lighting: AI Prime 16HD
How long has the aquarium been established? 4mo
Water quality (Salifert for all)
Temperature: 76 (brought down after 1st clown death, was 78)
pH: 8.3
Salinity / specific gravity: 1.024
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Phosphorus: 0

I’ve thought maybe O2 but the water top is disturbed to the point of adding small bubbles into the water, plus going up and over 3 baffles in the back.

What disease would consistently kill within 24 hours and only effect fish?

This tank and my other are on similar routines and use all the same supplements/RODI/salt.. one is thriving, this is not.

I have purchased an O2 Salifert kit to rule that out.. but is my only option a 2 month no fish to rule out disease? I appreciate any input as I don’t want to be a serial fish killer, breaks my heart already to have lost my original clown .

While this statement brings controversy, I can safely say you are using api test kits?
With that, you’re likely getting false readings and levels are higher than you realize and there may be an issue with oxygen levels and amount of water
With rock and decor, you likely have 10-12 available gallons
How do you acclimate and for how long?
Phosphorous pertains to freshwater and indicates you’re using test strips?
I would suggest taking a water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use API test kits and see what readings they come up with.

 

[Rainbow_Corral]

I am using all Salifert kits, and I meant Phosphates sorry, I copy and pasted from the helpful hints sticky. The kits worked faithfully through the cycling process on both tanks and I do still get nitrate readings in my other more heavily fed tank.

Acclimation for the Jawfish and new clown was about 1.5 hours as the Jawfish was coming from 1.020, the new clown salinity matched mine but I still performed for about 1.5 hours, both drip until salinity matches and the bowl is ready to overflow. My clown from my own tank spent 30min floating to adjust temp, then added 1 cup of water spaced about 10min apart for another 30min.

 

[rmorris_14]

Personally, I think if it were water chemistry that would affect fish, it would likely affect the inverts as well. There are fish disease that can kill that quickly. Brook comes to mind
If the pearly jawfish had it, then letting your tank sit two weeks would not be long enough for the diseases life cycle to die out and it could have been given to your clownfish. Do you remember if the clown had any physically visually symptoms of disease, besides the gasping for air.?

Maybe post a whole tank shot to rule out some other things like oxygen, ect....
#fishmedic

 

[MnFish1]

While this statement brings controversy, I can safely say you are using api test kits?
With that, you’re likely getting false readings and levels are higher than you realize and there may be an issue with oxygen levels and amount of water
With rock and decor, you likely have 10-12 available gallons
How do you acclimate and for how long?
Phosphorous pertains to freshwater and indicates you’re using test strips?
I would suggest taking a water sample to a trusted LFS that does Not use API test kits and see what readings they come up with.

API test kits have n nothing to do with it IMHO.

I you have inverts surviving and fish dying it has nothing to do with test kits. It sounds like an illness

 

[vetteguy53081]

Personally, I think if it were water chemistry that would affect fish, it would likely affect the inverts as well. There are fish disease that can kill that quickly. Brook comes to mind
If the pearly jawfish had it, then letting your tank sit two weeks would not be long enough for the diseases life cycle to die out and it could have been given to your clownfish. Do you remember if the clown had any physically visually symptoms of disease, besides the gasping for air.?

Maybe post a whole tank shot to rule out some other things like oxygen, ect....
#fishmedic

Zero readings while not impossible raise suspicion in a tank with small volume and zero nitrates will contribute to Dino and low nutrients for certain coral.
The challenge is assumption with a dead fish versus seeing a video

 

[vetteguy53081]

API test kits have n nothing to do with it IMHO.

I you have inverts surviving and fish dying it has nothing to do with test kits. It sounds like an illness

This is about the water and oxygen which means a whole lot
I’m glad to hear he’s not using api which eliminates possibility of false readings.
Had it been api, I merely encourage a second opinion not a debate

 

[MnFish1]

This is about the water and oxygen which means a whole lot
I’m glad to hear he’s not using api which eliminates possibility of false readings.
Had it been api, I merely encourage a second opinion not a debate

All good - the comment related to the general comment that API tests - by definition - are 'bad'. IMHO - this is not true - I will continue to disagree (in a R2R friendly manner) - until I have any evidence to the contrary

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi all! I am currently at a loss as to what is happening in my tank and hoping someone can bring a fresh perspective. I’ve read several threads on this and none seem to perfectly line up.

I have a 15gal AIO Waterbox that has been up for 4 months, cycled with Microbacter7. 12lbs of dry CaribSea rock, using a mix of live sand and crushed coral for substrate. 100gph return pump, Nero 3 set lowest setting for additional flow (overall about 40x turnover).

after the cycle completed I placed a few blue hermits and snails in the tank. Not a single loss. Placed a Favia, open brain coral, zoas, and a chalice coral - all doing great. I added 3 sexy shrimp, they’re happily swaying away.

I purchased a pearly Jawfish and drip acclimated, added him in. He did well, settled down, looked peaceful. Went to bed and he was still okay. I woke up to find he managed to wiggle into the back thru the filter slots but was still alive. Placed him back into the display but he passed shortly after which I attributed to stress.

I waited another 2 weeks and then added my clownfish from another tank (I’ve had him for 6mo). Both tanks have identical salinity, salt mix, RODI, etc. still I slowly acclimated him as their temps were slightly different (74 vs 78). Added in and he appeared happy and healthy. Woke the next morning, still appeared healthy and he ate. Around noon the next day, less than 24hr after adding, my partner found him on the bottom of the tank gasping and barely keeping himself upright - he passed 20min later.

I had a hard time rationalizing this as he was from my other tank, very few variables were different. This is when I got suspicious. I cleaned out the filter sponges, added purigen in case there was some toxin, did a large water change.

I purchased a new clown 2 weeks later, drip acclimated, added to tank around 2pm and he explored and swam around normally. By 10pm he was on the bottom, gasping, barely moving, and then passed.

this entire time my corals and Inverts have not displayed any signs of stress.


Aquarium Parameters:
Aquarium type: 15gal Nano reef
Filtration type: AIO overflow purigen LR
Lighting: AI Prime 16HD
How long has the aquarium been established? 4mo
Water quality (Salifert for all)
Temperature: 76 (brought down after 1st clown death, was 78)
pH: 8.3
Salinity / specific gravity: 1.024
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 0
Phosphorus: 0

I’ve thought maybe O2 but the water top is disturbed to the point of adding small bubbles into the water, plus going up and over 3 baffles in the back.

What disease would consistently kill within 24 hours and only effect fish?

This tank and my other are on similar routines and use all the same supplements/RODI/salt.. one is thriving, this is not.

I have purchased an O2 Salifert kit to rule that out.. but is my only option a 2 month no fish to rule out disease? I appreciate any input as I don’t want to be a serial fish killer, breaks my heart already to have lost my original clown .

The general rule is - if the fish are dying and the invertebrates are fine, it is not a water quality issue, but rather, a problem with the fish themselves (usually a disease). The only thing that might break that rule is low dissolved oxygen or supersaturation, but neither seems to be the case here.

It is possible that the three fish did not die from the same issues.

Did you see rapid breathing in any of the fish prior to death?

Jay

 

[vetteguy53081]

The general rule is - if the fish are dying and the invertebrates are fine, it is not a water quality issue, but rather, a problem with the fish themselves (usually a disease). The only thing that might break that rule is low dissolved oxygen or supersaturation, but neither seems to be the case here.

It is possible that the three fish did not die from the same issues.

Did you see rapid breathing in any of the fish prior to death?

Jay

On the subject of low oxygen came up on my behalf was possibilities of higher ammonia than shown which can't be seen unless tested and can then become unionized ammonia turning into an invisible killer by causing damage to the brain, organs, and nervous system.

 

[Sebastiancrab]

Velvet can kill that quick.

 

[rmorris_14]

On the subject of low oxygen came up on my behalf was possibilities of higher ammonia than shown which can't be seen unless tested and can then become unionized ammonia turning into an invisible killer by causing damage to the brain, organs, and nervous system.

But then wouldn’t the inverts die as well?

 

[vetteguy53081]

But then wouldn’t the inverts die as well?

Not necessarily as inverts have no gills but nitrates can cause them stress and inverts also can withstand higher levels than fish.

 

[Rainbow_Corral]

The general rule is - if the fish are dying and the invertebrates are fine, it is not a water quality issue, but rather, a problem with the fish themselves (usually a disease). The only thing that might break that rule is low dissolved oxygen or supersaturation, but neither seems to be the case here.

It is possible that the three fish did not die from the same issues.

Did you see rapid breathing in any of the fish prior to death?

Jay

Personally, I think if it were water chemistry that would affect fish, it would likely affect the inverts as well. There are fish disease that can kill that quickly. Brook comes to mind
If the pearly jawfish had it, then letting your tank sit two weeks would not be long enough for the diseases life cycle to die out and it could have been given to your clownfish. Do you remember if the clown had any physically visually symptoms of disease, besides the gasping for air.?

Maybe post a whole tank shot to rule out some other things like oxygen, ect....
#fishmedic

All of them were performing rapid breathing but at the bottom, never at the surface. It would be fairly sudden as well - with the 2nd clownfish I went upstairs for 30min and when I came down he appeared to be in shock at the bottom. No other physical signs of illness - eyes were fine up until that point, no spots or discoloration on scales. I even examined post death.

Zero readings while not impossible raise suspicion in a tank with small volume and zero nitrates will contribute to Dino and low nutrients for certain coral.
The challenge is assumption with a dead fish versus seeing a video

I am definitely battling with dinos in this tank, which is part of why I wanted to get a fish in there to start to 'dirty it up' so to speak. I am feeding the corals but my nitrate never goes above 5, performing about 30% water change weekly. The initial death had <5 for nitrate, then after that they all hovered at the 0/undetectable due to the large water change after each death I assume. I should mention I also cycled this tank using rock from my other more mature tank which helped speed the process up.

I will try to get a picture/vid up later.

Thank you everyone for the responses! If it is something like brook/velvet, any recommendations on how long to go fishless or if there are any medications to use to help clear the system?

 

[vetteguy53081]

All of them were performing rapid breathing but at the bottom, never at the surface. It would be fairly sudden as well - with the 2nd clownfish I went upstairs for 30min and when I came down he appeared to be in shock at the bottom. No other physical signs of illness - eyes were fine up until that point, no spots or discoloration on scales. I even examined post death.


I am definitely battling with dinos in this tank, which is part of why I wanted to get a fish in there to start to 'dirty it up' so to speak. I am feeding the corals but my nitrate never goes above 5, performing about 30% water change weekly. The initial death had <5 for nitrate, then after that they all hovered at the 0/undetectable due to the large water change after each death I assume. I should mention I also cycled this tank using rock from my other more mature tank which helped speed the process up.

I will try to get a picture/vid up later.

Thank you everyone for the responses! If it is something like brook/velvet, any recommendations on how long to go fishless or if there are any medications to use to help clear the system?

Typical treatment is a formalin solution is mixed with in a separate container with either fresh or saltwater. Start with a quick dip in the formalin at a higher concentration then performing treatment in a prolonged bath of formalin base at a lower concentration in a quarantine tank. The longer the fish are exposed to the formalin treatment the more effective it will be at eliminating this issue.
If a formalin solution is not available for immediate use, temporary relief can be achieved by giving the fish a FW bath or dip in water same temperature as display tank. Even though this treatment will not cure the disease, it can help to remove some of the parasites, as well as reduce the amount of mucus in the gills to assist with respiration problems.
Treatment is best done in a QT tank using either quick cure (more effective) or Ruby Rally Pro. Ruby takes a little longer and initial treatment generally takes 2-3 days to really start going to work. No need to go fishless