Fish Dying

[Alfredomeinhardt]

Ok. Something is defenitelly wrong here. I just put two bangai cardinals in my aquarium today (bought them from Dr. Reef) and one of them is acting up like doesn't have strenght to swim and drop to the rocks. The other one I cannot find it. This is after my two clown fish also died a week ago.

All the parameters are fine, other than I have 0 Nitrates and 0 Phosphates.

The weird thing is that all my CUC is fine and happy. I have close to 10 hermit crabs, a lot of snails, etc, and they all look fine and happy all around the tank.

I have a Duncan that is doing great and two Zoas that are opening great.

I cannot understand why the fish are not doing fine.

Should I be thinking on something on the water or maybe the rocks are leaching something that is killing the fish?? Three of the rocks came from my previous tanks and three I had them in a bucket in the garage for almost 6 months, but not close to any chemical or anything.

What you guys think??

 

[Alfredomeinhardt]

Just to give the whole picture. I bought these fish from Dr Reef and they came today. The firefish was dead on arrival and out of the three cardinals on the same bag, one was dead and the other two looked fine until now.

 

[Fish Fan]

Was the tank correctly nitrogen cycled?

Where did the Clownfish come from? If the Clowns had a disease that they died from, it may still be in the tank, which then infected the Cardinals.

I'd post some clear pics under white light of the fish in distress and hopefully one of the R2R #fishmedic guys can take a look for you.

Good luck!

 

[Alfredomeinhardt]

The nitrogen cicle went well. Ammonia up and down and nitrites up and down.

I checked both after adding the fish and they were 0.

The clown fish came from my other tank and they were fine. I added a fairy wrasse after I put them in and she die and two days later the clown died.

If there is a disease in the water what do I need to do to get rid of it?? I don’t want to add more fish just to die.

 

[Fish Fan]

If it is a disease, they typically advise you to leave the tank fallow (without fish) for a period of about 45-60 days to let any fish parasites die out without a fish host to complete their lifecycle. Give it a few minutes and I'm willing to bet that one of the fish medic crew will see my tag above and be able to offer more help.

 

[Alfredomeinhardt]

If it is a disease, they typically advise you to leave the tank fallow (without fish) for a period of about 45-60 days to let any fish parasites die out without a fish host to complete their lifecycle. Give it a few minutes and I'm willing to bet that one of the fish medic crew will see my tag above and be able to offer more help.

Thank you

 

[W31Olds]

Alfred, first of all, was there really 3 fish in one bag? I have never had more than 1 fish to a bag. Disease from your tank did not have time to kill your new fish, but 3 fish in one bag with one dead would cause a massive Ammonia Spike. How did you acclimate you fish? The drip method with a dead fish in a bag is a big problem. It could also be osmotic shock from a Salinity delta.

 

[Alfredomeinhardt]

I put the remaining fish in a bucket and drip aclimate them

 

[Alfredomeinhardt]

Alfred, first of all, was there really 3 fish in one bag? I have never had more than 1 fish to a bag. Disease from your tank did not have time to kill your new fish, but 3 fish in one bag with one dead would cause a massive Ammonia Spike. How did you acclimate you fish? The drip method with a dead fish in a bag is a big problem. It could also be osmotic shock from a Salinity delta.

And yes. They sent all three cardinals in the same bag, including the dead one

 

[Fish Fan]

Velvet can kill fish in as little as 12-24 hour.

Typically, it's ill-advised to drip acclimate fish that have been shipped, so this may well be your culprit.

#fishmedic

 

[Alfredomeinhardt]

Velvet can kill fish in as little as 12-24 hour.

Typically, it's ill-advised to drip acclimate fish that have been shipped, so this may well be your culprit.

#fishmedic

So how you acclimate them??

 

[Alfredomeinhardt]

Alfred, first of all, was there really 3 fish in one bag? I have never had more than 1 fish to a bag. Disease from your tank did not have time to kill your new fish, but 3 fish in one bag with one dead would cause a massive Ammonia Spike. How did you acclimate you fish? The drip method with a dead fish in a bag is a big problem. It could also be osmotic shock from a Salinity delta.

How you acclimate the fish that you bought online then

 

[Fish Fan]

So how you acclimate them??

You should check with the vendor you purchased the fish from, they typically have acclimation instructions, and their refund policy often requires you to follow their instructions exactly.

What happens when fish are shipped (as opposed to when you bring them home from your local store in 20 minutes or so) is that the fish respires in the bag, and produces carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide forms carbonic acid, which lowers the pH of the water in the bag. The fish is also producing ammonia in the bag, but ammonia is far less toxic at a lower pH. When you drip, you're bringing the pH of the water back up, which makes the ammonia much more toxic, but you're not diluting the ammonia quickly enough, so the level of toxic ammonia builds up quickly in the shipping bag water.

Here's a post from @Jay Hemdal, one of R2R's fish medic crew who works professionally for large public aquaria, and an article he wrote on acclimation:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/shipped-fish-to-acclimate-or-not.1009928/post-11779196
Maybe jay will pop in here with further advice for you.

I hope that helps!

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

You should check with the vendor you purchased the fish from, they typically have acclimation instructions, and their refund policy often requires you to follow their instructions exactly.

What happens when fish are shipped (as opposed to when you bring them home from your local store in 20 minutes or so) is that the fish respires in the bag, and produces carbon dioxide. The carbon dioxide forms carbonic acid, which lowers the pH of the water in the bag. The fish is also producing ammonia in the bag, but ammonia is far less toxic at a lower pH. When you drip, you're bringing the pH of the water back up, which makes the ammonia much more toxic, but you're not diluting the ammonia quickly enough, so the level of toxic ammonia builds up quickly in the shipping bag water.

Here's a post from @Jay Hemdal, one of R2R's fish medic crew who works professionally for large public aquaria, and an article he wrote on acclimation:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/shipped-fish-to-acclimate-or-not.1009928/post-11779196
Maybe jay will pop in here with further advice for you.

I hope that helps!

Deja Vue all over again - I just answered the other thread:

This sounds like an acclimation issue to me. It was too soon for any lingering disease to harm the fish (that takes 3+ days) and the invertebrates doing well rules out water quality issues.

I don't think Dr Reef wants you to use drip acclimation on his fish (that method has huge issues). Here is his acclimation guide:

https://drreefsquarantinedfish.com/acclimation-guide/

 

[W31Olds]

Alfred, I never use drip acclimation for fish that have been shipped. For Fish purchased at a LFS it's not a problem because they are not in the bag long enough. I would have contacted Dr. Reef immediately after receiving 3 fish in one bag. I expect they were tiny cardinals, but you are at a disadvantage if one is dead in the bag with ammonia.

 

[wasabi bean]

I mean with swimming issues could it not be low oxygen in the tank as well?

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

I mean with swimming issues could it not be low oxygen in the tank as well?

Probably not - since all of the invertebrates are doing well, only the fish are dying....that points towards a fish disease.

 

[W31Olds]

Alfred, you had 2 fish that arrive DOA so Dr. Reef should replace them without a problem. I would argue that they shipped 3 fish in one bag and 1 died so even using the wrong Acclimation method you were at a disadvantage because of a buildup of Ammonia.
https://www.reef2reef.com/members/dr-reef.26591/

 

[Alfredomeinhardt]

Ok no give up. I checked all the parameters and everything is ok. I bought 4 chromis and I acclimate them to the tank not drip but just temp and I checked the salinity before put them in and they all died in less than 24 hours.

I am going to pull everything out of the tank and clean it up and start all over again. I will dump the rock and sand and get new ones and start again

I will transfer my corals and CUC to another tank temp while I do all this. They are ok by the way. The corals and CUC are great, which makes this more weird

 

[Jay Hemdal Verified Community Expert]

Ok no give up. I checked all the parameters and everything is ok. I bought 4 chromis and I acclimate them to the tank not drip but just temp and I checked the salinity before put them in and they all died in less than 24 hours.

I am going to pull everything out of the tank and clean it up and start all over again. I will dump the rock and sand and get new ones and start again

I will transfer my corals and CUC to another tank temp while I do all this. They are ok by the way. The corals and CUC are great, which makes this more weird

Just to clarify - if new fish dies within 24 hours, it is NOT from a disease in the tank. Even the fastest killing disease, velvet, takes three days to kill newly added fish.

This has to be one of three things: 1) sick or weak fish that were that way before you got them, 2) some problem with acclimation, or 3) something acutely toxic in the water. You can rule out the last item because your corals are doing well.