Fish looks in distress

[Dvir]

Hi,
My queen angelfish in QT started acting weird today: head scratching, strange head movements (maybe gill flukes?), heavy breathing.

This is the QT protocol I'm currently following:

Day 1 - Dose GC
Day 3 - Dose metro
Day 5 - Dose metro
Day 6 - 50% water change
Day 7 - Dose GC
Day 9 - Dose metro
Day 10 - 50% water change
Day 11 - raise copper gradually over a few days and once reached wait for 14-21 days with no fish symptoms

Today it's day 6 so the fish went through one GC and 2 metro doses, and a 50% water change done today. The symptoms started today before the WC.
The fish started showing distress symptoms, it's shying away in a corner, seems to be breathing heavily, scratching its head area have burst swim patterns with head shaking movements. I can't see any physical symptoms on the fish and she is eating well. I captured these behaviors in 2 separate clips that were taken a few minutes apart.

I'm not sure if it's flukes or ich and am unsure of the next step, whether to continue with the above protocol or something else?
I thought to dose prazipro today and start gradually raising copper tomorrow, or maybe give the fish a ruby rally pro bath?

The other 2 fish in QT look ok, although the flame angelfish started swimming weirdly today and having its back get above the water level (3rd video). I'm not sure it's grapsing for air but I increased the air pump volume nonetheless. The white tail kole tang is not showing any symptoms.

Would really appreciate your advice on what should be the next step.

Thanks!

 

[Nano_Man]

#fishmedic

 

[vetteguy53081]

Hi,
My queen angelfish in QT started acting weird today: head scratching, strange head movements (maybe gill flukes?), heavy breathing.

This is the QT protocol I'm currently following:

Day 1 - Dose GC
Day 3 - Dose metro
Day 5 - Dose metro
Day 6 - 50% water change
Day 7 - Dose GC
Day 9 - Dose metro
Day 10 - 50% water change
Day 11 - raise copper gradually over a few days and once reached wait for 14-21 days with no fish symptoms

Today it's day 6 so the fish went through one GC and 2 metro doses, and a 50% water change done today. The symptoms started today before the WC.
The fish started showing distress symptoms, it's shying away in a corner, seems to be breathing heavily, scratching its head area have burst swim patterns with head shaking movements. I can't see any physical symptoms on the fish and she is eating well. I captured these behaviors in 2 separate clips that were taken a few minutes apart.

I'm not sure if it's flukes or ich and am unsure of the next step, whether to continue with the above protocol or something else?
I thought to dose prazipro today and start gradually raising copper tomorrow, or maybe give the fish a ruby rally pro bath?

The other 2 fish in QT look ok, although the flame angelfish started swimming weirdly today and having its back get above the water level (3rd video). I'm not sure it's grapsing for air but I increased the air pump volume nonetheless. The white tail kole tang is not showing any symptoms.

Would really appreciate your advice on what should be the next step.

Thanks!

These are signs yes of flukes and if you medicating this tank - What are you using?
If you are using coppersafe, you can safely add PraziPro for the flukes. With przi, maintain additional oxygen using an air stone and also apply the imitial Prazi dosage for 8 days known as an interval, do a water change on day 9 and do one more 8 day dose interval

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi,
My queen angelfish in QT started acting weird today: head scratching, strange head movements (maybe gill flukes?), heavy breathing.

This is the QT protocol I'm currently following:

Day 1 - Dose GC
Day 3 - Dose metro
Day 5 - Dose metro
Day 6 - 50% water change
Day 7 - Dose GC
Day 9 - Dose metro
Day 10 - 50% water change
Day 11 - raise copper gradually over a few days and once reached wait for 14-21 days with no fish symptoms

Today it's day 6 so the fish went through one GC and 2 metro doses, and a 50% water change done today. The symptoms started today before the WC.
The fish started showing distress symptoms, it's shying away in a corner, seems to be breathing heavily, scratching its head area have burst swim patterns with head shaking movements. I can't see any physical symptoms on the fish and she is eating well. I captured these behaviors in 2 separate clips that were taken a few minutes apart.

I'm not sure if it's flukes or ich and am unsure of the next step, whether to continue with the above protocol or something else?
I thought to dose prazipro today and start gradually raising copper tomorrow, or maybe give the fish a ruby rally pro bath?

The other 2 fish in QT look ok, although the flame angelfish started swimming weirdly today and having its back get above the water level (3rd video). I'm not sure it's grapsing for air but I increased the air pump volume nonetheless. The white tail kole tang is not showing any symptoms.

Would really appreciate your advice on what should be the next step.

Thanks!

That does seem to show flukes in the queen angel. Not sure what' going on with the flame, it looks a bit thin perhaps, not sure what the surface skimming is all about.

I would dose the prazi today and start Coppersafe right away.

One thing is that your protocol puts "the cart before the horse" so to speak. Metro just is just not a very strong anti-protozoal. By running GC/Metro first, you leave the fish open to protozoan infections that copper would take care of. I always start with copper first, and then go to GC or prazi and I skip Metro all together.

Jay

 

[Dvir]

Thanks @Jay Hemdal and @vetteguy53081 for your help.

I have copper power, don't have Coppersafe. Can I use copper power with prazipro too? I usually add copper power over a 5 day period until reaching ~2.3-2.5 therapeutic level.

In general do you recommend coppersafe over copper power?

 

[vetteguy53081]

Thanks @Jay Hemdal and @vetteguy53081 for your help.

I have copper power, don't have Coppersafe. Can I use copper power with prazipro too? I usually add copper power over a 5 day period until reaching ~2.3-2.5 therapeutic level.

In general do you recommend coppersafe over copper power?

Coppersafe and Prazi - Yes. The level you mentioned is good, However - DO NOT ramp the copper especially over several days which is a mistake as Increasing the copper level slowly can allow the disease to gain resistance making it harder to treat given disease if present. Add partial doses and get to the full treatment level as soon as possible.

 

[Dvir]

Coppersafe and Prazi - Yes. The level you mentioned is good, However - DO NOT ramp the copper especially over several days which is a mistake as Increasing the copper level slowly can allow the disease to gain resistance making it harder to treat given disease if present. Add partial doses and get to the full treatment level as soon as possible.

Thanks for the tip. Should I wait minutes/ hours between partial doses of copper power? how many doses do you suggest to split it to?

Thanks!

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Thanks @Jay Hemdal and @vetteguy53081 for your help.

I have copper power, don't have Coppersafe. Can I use copper power with prazipro too? I usually add copper power over a 5 day period until reaching ~2.3-2.5 therapeutic level.

In general do you recommend coppersafe over copper power?

Yes - copper power is essential the same as coppersafe. I just recommend coppersafe because I've used it for decades and it is more available in stores.

You should add the copper faster - get to a full dose in 36 hours or so. Going slow with copper is old advice, from when people used ionic copper products. Raising it slowly just leaves your fish open to protozoan diseases longer. Copper doesn't work well until you get above 2 ppm, and then, it can take three days to slow/stop an infection.


Jay

 

[Dvir]

Update after dosing prazipro ~15 hours ago and copper level reaching 1.33:

The fish is not scratching anymore and is just idling in a corner as the video is showing. There a couple of white dots right under her eyes which I didn't see before. She moved a little in the clip since I got near to take the video but the last 5 seconds of the clip shows how she's been doing in the last few hours. Is this a good or a bad sign?

So next time I dose prazipro will be in 7 days? I searched for how long it usually takes prazipro to make an effect and came across this page which suggests dosing the amount twice daily?

How Long Does PRAZIPRO Take to Work? - For Fish Lovers

We are reader supported. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Also, as an Amazon affiliate, we earn from qualifying purchases. Keeping a fish tank clean and pristine is the number one challenge for many aquarists. Fish waste, algae, food and other...

forfishlovers.com

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Update after dosing prazipro ~15 hours ago and copper level reaching 1.33:

The fish is not scratching anymore and is just idling in a corner as the video is showing. There a couple of white dots right under her eyes which I didn't see before. She moved a little in the clip since I got near to take the video but the last 5 seconds of the clip shows how she's been doing in the last few hours. Is this a good or a bad sign?

So next time I dose prazipro will be in 7 days? I searched for how long it usually takes prazipro to make an effect and came across this page which suggests dosing the amount twice daily?

How Long Does PRAZIPRO Take to Work? - For Fish Lovers

We are reader supported. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission. Also, as an Amazon affiliate, we earn from qualifying purchases. Keeping a fish tank clean and pristine is the number one challenge for many aquarists. Fish waste, algae, food and other...

forfishlovers.com

The angel is still breathing too fast, but otherwise, doesn't look too bad.

That web site is WRONG, dead wrong. Not sure how they messed that up so badly.

Jay

 

[Dvir]

Is it over? is there any chance of coming back from this state?

The fish was fine 2 days ago, can flukes kill this fast? The speed of the queen deteriorating and the fact that the flame is now constantly swimming against the power head makes me wonder whether this could be velvet? or a combination of the two?

 

[Dvir]

She just passed away, very sad about it and that I couldn't save her.

I think that whatever got the queen is now after the flame angel and white tail tang too. The angel is still surface skimming and when the power head is on swims against the current. The tang is showing rapid "uncontrolled" movements as if to shake something off and when not doing that just sits in the same spot the queen did. I'm at therapeutic copper now (2.56) so hopefully for these two there's still enough time.

@Jay Hemdal, @vetteguy53081 - would appreciate your thoughts if flukes can kill this fast or this could be velvet indeed?

Thanks

 

[vetteguy53081]

Is it over? is there any chance of coming back from this state?

The fish was fine 2 days ago, can flukes kill this fast? The speed of the queen deteriorating and the fact that the flame is now constantly swimming against the power head makes me wonder whether this could be velvet? or a combination of the two?

Sorry to hear. Flukes can as by the time you see them (If you can) and the symptoms have progressed, its a matter of time if not treated as they get into gill and cause issues with fish. I see despite warning you were ramping the copper which it never had a chance to take effect. In the pic, fish is moribund and when you find them like this, it generally too late to bring fish back although ive seen rare recoveries.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry to see.

It could be velvet I suppose, but all of the clues we have point to it being flukes.

Jay

 

[Dvir]

Woke up this morning to a dead flame and tang
@vetteguy53081 - I thought I was following the warning as I didn't ramp it over a period of days

I think my lesson here is to change the protocol to start with copper first.

Thanks all for the help.

 

[vetteguy53081]

Woke up this morning to a dead flame and tang
@vetteguy53081 - I thought I was following the warning as I didn't ramp it over a period of days

I think my lesson here is to change the protocol to start with copper first.

Thanks all for the help.

Sorry to hear- it’s generally coppersafe followed by prazi

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Sorry to hear….

Jay