Fish suddenly rubbing gill area on rocks and surfaces

[bitstream]

20 gallon DT has been in existence for 3-4 months and the same fish (2 clowns, 1 royal gramma, 1 Yasha Goby) have been in there since early on. I have since added some corals over time (all dipped in CoralRx), and later 4 snails and 2 hermit crabs as CUC.

Today I noticed 2 of the fish rubbing their gill areas on rocks and surfaces.

The only notable difference was that I normally do a 10-15% WC each Saturday, but did a 30-35% change yesterday as the water was looking a bit discolored. Before and after parameter tests show almost no changes in overall params, just a slight bump in Alk.

I do not see any Ich… flukes perhaps? Wondering if maybe eggs somehow hitchhiked on corals and recently hatched? The last corals were added 2 weeks ago.

I’m hesitant to do the FW dip given the stress it incurs.

Would it be wise to just treat the whole tank with ParaziPro?

Anything else you suggest?

Here’s some video of the behavior:

Gramma behavior video

Clownfish behavior video

 

[vetteguy53081]

20 gallon DT has been in existence for 3-4 months and the same fish (2 clowns, 1 royal gramma, 1 Yasha Goby) have been in there since early on. I have since added some corals over time (all dipped in CoralRx), and later 4 snails and 2 hermit crabs as CUC.

Today I noticed 2 of the fish rubbing their gill areas on rocks and surfaces.

The only notable difference was that I normally do a 10-15% WC each Saturday, but did a 30-35% change yesterday as the water was looking a bit discolored. Before and after parameter tests show almost no changes in overall params, just a slight bump in Alk.

I do not see any Ich… flukes perhaps? Wondering if maybe eggs somehow hitchhiked on corals and recently hatched? The last corals were added 2 weeks ago.

I’m hesitant to do the FW dip given the stress it incurs.

Would it be wise to just treat the whole tank with ParaziPro?

Anything else you suggest?

You likely won’t see flukes but some signs including the itching you see are increased breathing rate, yawning behavior, loss of appetite. Sudden darting and cloudy eyes
Can you provide video under white light intensity showing behavior?
At times, a 5 minute freshwater dip will show what looks like fish scales on bottom of bucket used which are flukes which have fallen off. FW dip is safe if fish is not breathing heavy but always a risk

 

[Jay Hemdal]

20 gallon DT has been in existence for 3-4 months and the same fish (2 clowns, 1 royal gramma, 1 Yasha Goby) have been in there since early on. I have since added some corals over time (all dipped in CoralRx), and later 4 snails and 2 hermit crabs as CUC.

Today I noticed 2 of the fish rubbing their gill areas on rocks and surfaces.

The only notable difference was that I normally do a 10-15% WC each Saturday, but did a 30-35% change yesterday as the water was looking a bit discolored. Before and after parameter tests show almost no changes in overall params, just a slight bump in Alk.

I do not see any Ich… flukes perhaps? Wondering if maybe eggs somehow hitchhiked on corals and recently hatched? The last corals were added 2 weeks ago.

I’m hesitant to do the FW dip given the stress it incurs.

Would it be wise to just treat the whole tank with ParaziPro?

Anything else you suggest?

It could be be gill irritation or flukes. I’d give it a couple of days and if the issue persists, assume it is flukes.
FW dips are rough on the fish - not the dip itself, but catching them. Then, without microscope you won’t see most flukes in the dip water. Finally, putting the fish back into the same tank just reinfects them.
I would try Prazipro - two treatments, 8 days apart, with good aeration. Remove carbon but keep skimmer running (just don’t collect any skimmate). Some people to a 25% water change before the second treatment.

Jay

 

[bitstream]

You likely won’t see flukes but some signs including the itching you see are increased breathing rate, yawning behavior, loss of appetite. Sudden darting and cloudy eyes
Can you provide video under white light intensity showing behavior?
At times, a 5 minute freshwater dip will show what looks like fish scales on bottom of bucket used which are flukes which have fallen off. FW dip is safe if fish is not breathing heavy but always a risk

It just started today so they are still eating and breathing seems fine, but they are way more animated and two of the fish occasionally spaz.

I just updated the post with videos. It’s under marine light. If I turn on white light, the gramma hides and refuses to come out.

 

[bitstream]

It could be be gill irritation or flukes. I’d give it a couple of days and if the issue persists, assume it is flukes.
FW dips are rough on the fish - not the dip itself, but catching them. Then, without microscope you won’t see most flukes in the dip water. Finally, putting the fish back into the same tank just reinfects them.
I would try Prazipro - two treatments, 8 days apart, with good aeration. Remove carbon but keep skimmer running (just don’t collect any skimmate). Some people to a 25% water change before the second treatment.

Jay

That’s what I was thinking and leaning toward doing. I’m looking to get a variety of opinions.

A bit worried about what the medicine might do to my corals, but there’s nothing in there that’s terribly inexpensive or irreplaceable.

What I can’t figure out is — why now?

I also have no idea what’s going on with the Goby as it’s a dork and hides 99.9% of the time. I saw it for literally 5 seconds this morning.

 

[bitstream]

You likely won’t see flukes but some signs including the itching you see are increased breathing rate, yawning behavior, loss of appetite. Sudden darting and cloudy eyes
Can you provide video under white light intensity showing behavior?
At times, a 5 minute freshwater dip will show what looks like fish scales on bottom of bucket used which are flukes which have fallen off. FW dip is safe if fish is not breathing heavy but always a risk

I do see one one clown opening its mouth a lot more. Is this what you mean by “yawning”?

 

[vetteguy53081]

I do see one one clown opening its mouth a lot more. Is this what you mean by “yawning”?

Yes and treatment will be prazi pro applied initially and run for 8 days and change water and one more application lasting 7 days with added aeration

 

[vetteguy53081]

It just started today so they are still eating and breathing seems fine, but they are way more animated and two of the fish occasionally spaz.

I just updated the post with videos. It’s under marine light. If I turn on white light, the gramma hides and refuses to come out.

Gramma also susceptibleto flukes

 

[Jay Hemdal]

That’s what I was thinking and leaning toward doing. I’m looking to get a variety of opinions.

A bit worried about what the medicine might do to my corals, but there’s nothing in there that’s terribly inexpensive or irreplaceable.

What I can’t figure out is — why now?

I also have no idea what’s going on with the Goby as it’s a dork and hides 99.9% of the time. I saw it for literally 5 seconds this morning.

Flukes can be carried in as eggs on new corals, but more commonly, fish have a subclinical infection for months before showing symptoms.

When dosed properly, Prazipro is reef safe.

Jay

 

[bitstream]

Flukes can be carried in as eggs on new corals, but more commonly, fish have a subclinical infection for months before showing symptoms.

When dosed properly, Prazipro is reef safe.

Jay

Got it.

I’m following your guidance and have dosed ParaziPro. My Gramma was scratching against rock work roughly every 5 mins all day.

 

[bitstream]

I’ll post updates as the next couple weeks unfold. Fingers crossed that ParaziPro gets the job done. I hate seeing animals suffer or struggle.

 

[Ross]

Good luck, keep us posted.

 

[bitstream]

Dosed ParaziPro yesterday afternoon. Fish are even more animated today but not in a good way, indicating a lot of discomfort. Tons of flashing, with the gramma hitting the rock face every few minutes. They did eat their normal meal this morning, which is one good sign.

Haven’t seen the Goby at all. It’s nested itself somewhere deep in the rock work where I can’t see it and didn’t come out to feed. No idea if it’s alive or dead, but what’s new.

Any idea how long it might take before we see improvement? Or anything else I should check?

Water test on Saturday was all good. No ammo, no nitrite, nitrates were like 14. Ph 7.9, Alk was 370 and mag like 1050, but that’s normal for my tank. Phosphate was 0, but thus far the tank tends to see saw between 0.02 and 0, with some hair algae blooms and diatom still occurring each week.

 

[dieselkeeper]

Keeping fish fed quality food helps a lot. What are you feeding them?

 

[bitstream]

Keeping fish fed quality food helps a lot. What are you feeding them?

I alternate what I give them each day. One day frozen mysis, another it’s Formula Two omnivore blend, and occasionally (probably twice per week) some flakes.

They eat once per day, though once or twice a week they’ll get an afternoon sprinkle of extra flakes.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Dosed ParaziPro yesterday afternoon. Fish are even more animated today but not in a good way, indicating a lot of discomfort. Tons of flashing, with the gramma hitting the rock face every few minutes. They did eat their normal meal this morning, which is one good sign.

Haven’t seen the Goby at all. It’s nested itself somewhere deep in the rock work where I can’t see it and didn’t come out to feed. No idea if it’s alive or dead, but what’s new.

Any idea how long it might take before we see improvement? Or anything else I should check?

Water test on Saturday was all good. No ammo, no nitrite, nitrates were like 14. Ph 7.9, Alk was 370 and mag like 1050, but that’s normal for my tank. Phosphate was 0, but thus far the tank tends to see saw between 0.02 and 0, with some hair algae blooms and diatom still occurring each week.

It is VERY common for fish to get worse right after a prazi treatments. First, the worms move around and drop off, that causes extreme skin irritation. Secondly, in very bad infections, all of the worms dropping off can cause anemia in the fish due to the blook loss. There is no way around that - you can't leave the worms on the fish, and knocking them off can cause the fish to bleed out. Feeding is a good sign though.

I generally see the fish improve after a few days, certainly prior to the second treatment.

Jay

 

[bitstream]

It is VERY common for fish to get worse right after a prazi treatments. First, the worms move around and drop off, that causes extreme skin irritation. Secondly, in very bad infections, all of the worms dropping off can cause anemia in the fish due to the blook loss. There is no way around that - you can't leave the worms on the fish, and knocking them off can cause the fish to bleed out. Feeding is a good sign though.

I generally see the fish improve after a few days, certainly prior to the second treatment.

Jay

The recommendation was 8 days, though the bottle recommends 7 days, and as often as every 3 days.

I also see lots of folks saying every 72 hours, with few mentions of water changes.

I want to make sure I’m breaking the cycle. Should I do it every 3-5 days or can we really wait 7-8 days?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

The recommendation was 8 days, though the bottle recommends 7 days, and as often as every 3 days.

I also see lots of folks saying every 72 hours, with few mentions of water changes.

I want to make sure I’m breaking the cycle. Should I do it every 3-5 days or can we really wait 7-8 days?

The key to breaking the life cycle is if the flukes involved are an egg laying species. One dose will usually kill off live bearing flukes, but praziquantel does not kill fluke eggs, so with the egg layers, one doe kills the adults, but then the fish get reinfected when new eggs hatch out. The timing on this s tough - there is some variation as to how long it takes the eggs to hatch. What you need to try and do is wait just long enough for all of the eggs to hatch, but not long enough for the newly hatched flukes to get new eggs. 8 days is an estimate.

 

[vetteguy53081]

The recommendation was 8 days, though the bottle recommends 7 days, and as often as every 3 days.

I also see lots of folks saying every 72 hours, with few mentions of water changes.

I want to make sure I’m breaking the cycle. Should I do it every 3-5 days or can we really wait 7-8 days?

Skip bottle which often confuses many
Jay's days is best and safest and to confirm you have it down pat. . . . dose at 85% of recommended and apply initial dosage known as an interval for 8 days, do a water change and do one more 8 day dose interval
Use airstone with prazi as it does reduce both oxygen and appetite. If running a skimmer, leave cup off first 24 hrs as skimmer will go nuts from the glycol solution in Prazi

 

[bitstream]

The key to breaking the life cycle is if the flukes involved are an egg laying species. One dose will usually kill off live bearing flukes, but praziquantel does not kill fluke eggs, so with the egg layers, one doe kills the adults, but then the fish get reinfected when new eggs hatch out. The timing on this s tough - there is some variation as to how long it takes the eggs to hatch. What you need to try and do is wait just long enough for all of the eggs to hatch, but not long enough for the newly hatched flukes to get new eggs. 8 days is an estimate.

Got it. Should I skim at all during the 16 days of treatment? Thus far I run the skimmer with the cup off only.