Fish Vendor Question

[Humblefish]

Really tough to stay in business and offer truly fully QT'd and vetted fish with a warranty. I do it, but only offer the service to my private clients who have ongoing tank maintenance accounts. It saves me money in the long run by having as near zero fish losses in client tanks as possible which leads to less nonscheduled service requests and a very robust referral network from satisfied customers who see the difference. Now, do I make money on the fish sales themselves? No. I pretty much break even when factoring in how much loss I deal with and labor is put into each fish. I charge a higher than standard retail price, but its barely enough to cover my associated fish QT overhead.

^^ You got that right, which is why so few even try. Eats up so much of my time now as well. But as @Diesel said to me, "You made a promise and stick with it." So, that's what I'm gonna do because it's the right thing to do for the fish. They deserve better...

 

[paphater]

I think for the vast majority people a truly and fully QT'd fish is a waste, for lack of a better term, as most tank's aren't sterile of pathogens/parasites. I'd settle for a healthy fish that has been through a round of copper and prazi and that is eating like a pig. That's why I get most of my fish from DD. I know DD doesn't really run a real QT protocol with their fish but all the fish I have gotten from them have been fat and outwardly healthy. I think a fully QT'd business is better served as an on demand type service.

 

[cancun]

I think for the vast majority people a truly and fully QT'd fish is a waste, for lack of a better term, as most tank's aren't sterile of pathogens/parasites. I'd settle for a healthy fish that has been through a round of copper and prazi and that is eating like a pig. That's why I get most of my fish from DD. I know DD doesn't really run a real QT protocol with their fish but all the fish I have gotten from them have been fat and outwardly healthy. I think a fully QT'd business is better served as an on demand type service.

I know a lot of people use DD to buy fish, but I have never had luck buying from them. The few fish I did buy from them looked healthy, but didn't make it more than a few days. What kind of fish did you buy, and how did you acclimate them?

 

[Diesel]

^^ You got that right, which is why so few even try. Eats up so much of my time now as well. But as @Diesel said to me, "You made a promise and stick with it." So, that's what I'm gonna do because it's the right thing to do for the fish. They deserve better...

"The only tough day was yesterday"

Fish don't know any better it's all in the hobbyist hands.
I have quarantined many fish for fellow hobbyist in the Houston area and when I told them to pick up their fish they really thought I got different fish for them.
They were athletic trained fish that eat all kinds of food.
I even acclimated the fish to almost the same parameters and saltmix they were running in their tanks.
I leave the quarantine business up to Bobby now cause it takes a lot of time and I don't have much time on my hand anymore :(
I stick with the fish I have for myself as this is a nice collection of some rare fish.
I even put all my QT at the curb so in that case I can't have any more new fish or corals.
This hobby came in as a train in the last 10 years and now we have a runnaway train on our hands :mad:

 

[paphater]

I know a lot of people use DD to buy fish, but I have never had luck buying from them. The few fish I did buy from them looked healthy, but didn't make it more than a few days. What kind of fish did you buy, and how did you acclimate them?

I've gotten about eight fish from them, from a moorish idol to yellow long nose butterfly. I know eight isn't a huge sample size but so far they have all been great. My only complaint was that my quoyi parrot came in with a blemish that wasn't listed. When I get them I don't take much time to acclimate them. I float them for 15 minutes or so and then get them in to fresh saltwater. I've always heard that fish can adjust to mild increases in salinity much easier than decreases in salinity, so unless there is a considerable difference I get them out of their shipping water as fast as possible.

 

[rockskimmerflow]

^^ You got that right, which is why so few even try. Eats up so much of my time now as well. But as @Diesel said to me, "You made a promise and stick with it." So, that's what I'm gonna do because it's the right thing to do for the fish. They deserve better...

Props to you for sticking with it. Best of luck on the venture as well! I have no aspirations to move into any market beyond the private client service industry when it comes to quarantined livestock and I do not envy the work you have to put in to offer such a product on a large scale. As another poster noted, many tanks are not sterile. To that point, my first order of business with new accounts is to educate them, sterilize their systems of fish pathogens, then begin stocking with healthy disease free stock from a single source- me. My clients know that the 2 month warranty my fish carry is null and void if they add any livestock from an LFS or other unvetted origin. I learned early on that the "well the guy at the LFS said it was quarantined, so it must have been something else that got velvet into the tank..." line was not going to fly with me. I have parted ways with otherwise well paying customers who could not refrain from reinfecting their tanks on impulse buys and subsequently suffered partial fish wipeouts as a result. The past few years have been comparatively smooth sailing in the fish disease department and I can thankfully say that of the literal thousands of fish I have in customer tanks in the field, there is not a single one I can think of currently that has any sign of pathogen or vector based illness. I sleep better at night knowing that I've done all my can to ensure that if I have the final responsibility for an aquarium all the fish have the best chance of living a full and healthy life in their captive home. Recently had a customer tell me they were perplexed that all 5 of their chromis died over the course of 3 months - the chromis were 7.5 years old... Don't know their exact expected longevity but those fish had a longer run than I ever expected honestly.

 

[Genomecop]

^^ You got that right, which is why so few even try. Eats up so much of my time now as well. But as @Diesel said to me, "You made a promise and stick with it." So, that's what I'm gonna do because it's the right thing to do for the fish. They deserve better...

So, are you/do you offer a quarantine service for customers? I'm slightly confused.

 

[Mark Gray]

^^ You got that right, which is why so few even try. Eats up so much of my time now as well. But as @Diesel said to me, "You made a promise and stick with it." So, that's what I'm gonna do because it's the right thing to do for the fish. They deserve better...

And I hope your endeavor goes very well for you Good Luck

 

[ReefWithCare]

For all this folks who lost DD fish overnight or within a few days ask how they accumulated the fish. If they drip accumulated it will likely be fatal since the ammonia in the bag will burn the gills. The other factor is if ordered from the CA facility the salinity is lower so you have to prep your QT lower to match the water. DD water is usually around 1.025.

So far DD has been good to me. The only lost that has been reported in the group orders I have done the guy drop accumulated the fish in the bag water - a huge no no [emoji58].

Even with a full QT process like what HF will do, order shipping can still go wrong. I have seen the carrier drop off the fish box upside down or on its side [emoji30]. They totally ignore the signs. Make sure you get the box the moment it arrives.

 

[3mm3]

For all this folks who lost DD fish overnight or within a few days ask how they accumulated the fish. If they drip accumulated it will likely be fatal since the ammonia in the bag will burn the gills. The other factor is if ordered from the CA facility the salinity is lower so you have to prep your QT lower to match the water. DD water is usually around 1.025.

So far DD has been good to me. The only lost that has been reported in the group orders I have done the guy drop accumulated the fish in the bag water - a huge no no [emoji58].

Even with a full QT process like what HF will do, order shipping can still go wrong. I have seen the carrier drop off the fish box upside down or on its side [emoji30]. They totally ignore the signs. Make sure you get the box the moment it arrives.

You have some valid points, but I can assure you every online fish purchase I have made the fish came in with a serious issue and would be dead in short time. This fish that arrived from DD, fingers crossed, hopefully breaks that cycle for me. It's worth mentioning that these failures happened despite my serious attention to detail in Matching the shipping water.

I believe there are many people out there like myself that would pay top dollar for legitimately quarantined fish for added security and the ability to get them into the display without the hassle.

People pay massive vet bills for keeping their pets healthy and I guess I look at paying for quarantined fish as kind of the same thing :)

 

[ReefWithCare]

You have some valid points, but I can assure you every online fish purchase I have made the fish came in with a serious issue and would be dead in short time. This fish that arrived from DD, fingers crossed, hopefully breaks that cycle for me. It's worth mentioning that these failures happened despite my serious attention to detail in Matching the shipping water.

I believe there are many people out there like myself that would pay top dollar for legitimately quarantined fish for added security and the ability to get them into the display without the hassle.

People pay massive vet bills for keeping their pets healthy and I guess I look at paying for quarantined fish as kind of the same thing :)

I agree I would love it as well —- but people will need to support him vs just talk. I wouldn’t be surprised that something like a Yellow Tang will easily cost over $200 for pre QT conditioning for him to make a decent profit.

 

[Genomecop]

I agree I would love it as well —- but people will need to support him vs just talk. I wouldn’t be surprised that something like a Yellow Tang will easily cost over $200 for pre QT conditioning for him to make a decent profit.

I actually feel the people who are looking for such a service would be willing to pay for it...and expect it.

 

[Diesel]

Tony Vargas had done it before with The Vault.
Quarantining fish and corals, he had a large facility.
To bad that the majority of the hobbyist ignored the need of this kind of business.
Maybe with the big loses hobbyist have now they will be willing to pay for this cause that it's all it takes.
If you to lazy to Quaritine the fish yourself than this is your ONLY option.
I'm still surprised that the big online stores not have jumped on the fact to bring a quaritine tank package on the market.
This include from the choice of different sizes of tanks with pumps and medication and of course a perfect put together DVD with instructions.

 

[Genomecop]

I'm certainly a customer for this. My Manhattan apt. is hardly big and space is limited...very limited, to where I could put a quarantine tank. There is a guy on FB that quarantines his fish before sale. Pacific Island Aquatics. We've messaged each other and he seems like he's legit. He will do a batch quarantine if you are looking to stock a new tank all at once.

 

[ReefWithCare]

I'm certainly a customer for this. My Manhattan apt. is hardly big and space is limited...very limited, to where I could put a quarantine tank. There is a guy on FB that quarantines his fish before sale. Pacific Island Aquatics. We've messaged each other and he seems like he's legit. He will do a batch quarantine if you are looking to stock a new tank all at once.

The think the other issue you’ll see is the ones that do this will tend to do this for more expensive fish. It’s going to be nearly impossible to find a pre QT’ed Royal Gramma for example. You best bet is likely still going to be DD for the smaller and hardier fish available.

 

[3mm3]

The think the other issue you’ll see is the ones that do this will tend to do this for more expensive fish. It’s going to be nearly impossible to find a pre QT’ed Royal Gramma for example. You best bet is likely still going to be DD for the smaller and hardier fish available.

I personally would pay a fee for the cheap fish but I would try to do a group quarantine if vendor was willing.
That's actually what I am going to try for soon ;)

 

[Diesel]

Let's give Bobby @Humblefish a GB that he can quaritine the whole batch of fish in ones.
I'm in for a Cirrhilabrus lineatus.
Who's game?

 

[Genomecop]

I personally would pay a fee for the cheap fish but I would try to do a group quarantine if vendor was willing.
That's actually what I am going to try for soon ;)

Agree. I'd like to order like six or ten fish at once. Have them all quarantined and shipped. TAKE MY MONEY.

 

[Humblefish]

Let's give Bobby @Humblefish a GB that he can quaritine the whole batch of fish in ones.
I'm in for a Cirrhilabrus lineatus.
Who's game?

I'm zeroing in on some of these now, as it is my most requested wrasse. Just waiting for the wholesaler to place an Australia order, and I will buy 8-10 of them.

 

[Diesel]

I'm zeroing in on some of these now, as it is my most requested wrasse. Just waiting for the wholesaler to place an Australia order, and I will buy 8-10 of them.

I like what I hear.
Let me know what the next step will be.