Flasher wrasse help please

ajm83

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Hi, I've had this guy in my QT for three weeks in Paraguard at recommended dose.

Was fine for the first two weeks, then he started being a bit lethargic, laying on the bottom and darting to the top. Heavy breathing.

First thought was flukes, so I did a 5 min FW dip. He acted fine in the dip and I did not see any flukes come off. Wondering if it's velvet as his skin looks kind of patchy. All other fish in the QT look okay.

However he quickly went further down hill after the dip and has since just laid on his side breathing heavily.





I dropped the salinity to 1.018 over 12 hours or so and temperature to 22c to try and increase the oxygen content.

Any help very much appreciated!
 
Tommy's Phyto

Jay Hemdal

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I have two concerns: Paraguard has not worked well for me recently in treating protozoans, where it used to work well. It may have just been bad luck, but I worry that they may have changed the formulation at some point.

Also, you said you treated with it for 3 weeks? I thought the full treatment was 2 weeks? Paraguard has malachite green in it. The trouble with that is it is a cumulative toxin, and can cause sensitive fish to react poorly when used for long periods.


Jay
 
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vetteguy53081

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Agree on paraguard- didn’t do much for me and recommended is up to two weeks in which the overall body looks rough
Hyposalinity is somewhat effective when parasites are present but not sure why drop salinity this low otherwise with fish already in distress
If this were my fish, I would have normal parameters with added oxygen, low light and treatment with something like ruby rally pro or maracyn 2 and looking for daily progress
What are your current ammonia and nitrate readings ?
Temp of 76-79
 
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ajm83

ajm83

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I have two concerns: Paraguard has not worked well for me recently in treating protozoans, where it used to work well. It may have just been bad luck, but I worry that they may have changed the formulation at some point.

Also, you said you treated with it for 3 weeks? I thought the full treatment was 2 weeks? Paraguard has malachite green in it. The trouble with that is it is a cumulative toxin, and can cause sensitive fish to react poorly when used for long periods.


Jay
Sorry I just realised I made a mistake with the dates, December 31st he went in there, so 14 days. Apparently you can do 21 days though (according to Seachem...so take that as you will!)

Should I do a large water change/run carbon to remove the Paraguard immediately do you think?

Agree on paraguard- didn’t do much for me and recommended is up to two weeks in which the overall body looks rough
Hyposalinity is somewhat effective when parasites are present but not sure why drop salinity this low otherwise with fish already in distress
If this were my fish, I would have normal parameters with added oxygen, low light and treatment with something like ruby rally pro or maracyn 2 and looking for daily progress
What are your current ammonia and nitrate readings ?
Temp of 76-79
Hi, regarding the salinity and temp, I was following the bits that I could of Humblefish's emergency recovery guide. I also added an airstone. It was looking like it would certainly die, so I was trying to give it the best possible chance. Hope I haven't made it worse. :(

Ammonia 0, nitrate is 10. Aside from Paraguard, no medication has been in the water.

The problem is i'm in the UK so I can't get Maracyn2 or Ruby Rally Pro easily. Nor can I get Copper Power.
What I have available are Cupramine, Flubendazole, Paraguard. I could get Acriflavine, Melafix or Prazi. Proper antibiotics and such are a bit more tricky.


PS. thank you both for your replies. :)
 
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vetteguy53081

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Yeah, , Limitations in Europe and canada pose a challenge for many. melafix although not deemed a medication would help a little with skin issue. Treatments you mentioned, the best may be Acriflavine. Acriflavine is both an antiseptic and a protozoacide, meaning that it kills infections caused by the overgrowth of parasitic protozoans (single-celled organisms) and therefore treats a variety of ailments from bacterial and fungal infections to disinfecting open wounds in fish.
As a warning, Do not expose shrimps, crabs, crustaceans or any other invertebrates to acriflavine. It will likely kill them.
Acriflavine works on:

- Oodinum protozoan parasite that causes an infection called Velvet Disease
- Flavobacterium which is a bacteria that causes an infection known as Columnaris
- Fin rot which is a bacteria causing fins and tails to become ragged and frayed; in some cases almost completely eroded
- Open Body Sores and bacterial infections causing open red sores on the body

Acriflavine can be used as a short term bucket dip for fish, or it can be added to the aquarium water to treat the entire tank. However, when used as a bath treatment, caution should be used, as it will stain artificial plants and other decorations.
use carbon to remove other meds before using acriflavine as it does NOT mix well with most anything
 
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ajm83

ajm83

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I just checked in on him, and he's still alive and breathing :D He actually swam over to come and get some food, so guess he's feeling a little better.

I've been out and got the acriflavine but seeing him active, I'm tempted to just keep pristine water and monitor him for a while. Maybe you guys are right and it was the Paraguard itself making him poorly.
 
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Jay Hemdal

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Sorry I just realised I made a mistake with the dates, December 31st he went in there, so 14 days. Apparently you can do 21 days though (according to Seachem...so take that as you will!)

Should I do a large water change/run carbon to remove the Paraguard immediately do you think?


Hi, regarding the salinity and temp, I was following the bits that I could of Humblefish's emergency recovery guide. I also added an airstone. It was looking like it would certainly die, so I was trying to give it the best possible chance. Hope I haven't made it worse. :(

Ammonia 0, nitrate is 10. Aside from Paraguard, no medication has been in the water.

The problem is i'm in the UK so I can't get Maracyn2 or Ruby Rally Pro easily. Nor can I get Copper Power.
What I have available are Cupramine, Flubendazole, Paraguard. I could get Acriflavine, Melafix or Prazi. Proper antibiotics and such are a bit more tricky.


PS. thank you both for your replies. :)
Just for future reference, water changes or carbon don’t seem to help with malachite green toxicity as the problem is that it is already absorbed by the fish.
Jay
 
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ajm83

ajm83

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Pleased to say he's looking a lot better. Swimming around and eating like nothing happened.

I reckon the colouration in the OP was just his stress markings. Not sure if he was genuinely ill or just faking it. If he was just playing dead then he deserves an Oscar

I'd still like to treat him with copper, and can only get Cupramine which I gather is not ideal for flasher wrasses. Wish me luck...
 
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