Flow in our tank: Tunze, Ecotech, Wav, Gyre..great debate

[justingraham]

I think the Vortechs get a bit more noise because the motor is on the outside of the tank. The water and glass insulates that noise on pumps that are inside the tank.

I do appreciate the aesthetic of no wires in the tank, but just haven't been able to justify the expense of the Vortechs yet.

I am starting a new tank, and installing a Gyre, because I like the look of the flow patterns I have seen. That being said, I sat through an excellent talk by the head of the Long Island Aquarium, and he was extolling the value of Sea Swirls, and said he thinks they will come back as people get tired of the newer toys.

Joe is a great guy think I was paying attention to the sea swirl idea?

I got two of them on my tank as well.

 

[FirstContact]

I'm running a Jebao RW15 and a PP15 right now. They do a great job hooked up to my controller, but the reliability of their power supplies and individual controllers is lacking but easily replaced at such a low cost.

I'd like to pick up some Maxspect Gyres at MACNA and thinking about a Panta Rhei ECM 42 Hydrowizard instead of Tunze or Vortech. The hydrowizard 42 only gets about 3000 gph, but you get the impression that this quality piece of gear will outlast everything else on the market.

 

[Ocelaris]

I just picked up two jebao rw15s, at full throttle they do make a small amount of noise, but I don't run them at full tilt as they already make a sand storm. The WiFi controllers are nice, but hand controls are better for tweaking. I just couldn't justify the cost of the tunzes, but would like to try some down the road. I've never owned tunzes or ecotechs, but I would highly recommend them. Flow is very disperse at a few inches.

Anything you can't aim is to deal breaker to me, as I am adjusting the angle regularly, moving them around etc...

I also have a gyre 150 and it does move a ton of water, but it's good for overall tank movement, not random swirls. You can get two, but the linear nature doesn't create enough flow through the rocks and corals for me.

 

[justingraham]

I just picked up two jebao rw15s, at full throttle they do make a small amount of noise, but I don't run them at full tilt as they already make a sand storm. The WiFi controllers are nice, but hand controls are better for tweaking. I just couldn't justify the cost of the tunzes, but would like to try some down the road. I've never owned tunzes or ecotechs, but I would highly recommend them. Flow is very disperse at a few inches.

Anything you can't aim is to deal breaker to me, as I am adjusting the angle regularly, moving them around etc...

I also have a gyre 150 and it does move a ton of water, but it's good for overall tank movement, not random swirls. You can get two, but the linear nature doesn't create enough flow through the rocks and corals for me.

So what size is your tank and if you don't mind what did u spend on the jaboes?

 

[Ocelaris]

It's a 110, 60*18*24. I think it was like 90 for each including wifi controller and shipping. There was a slight discount for two at fish street.

The main selling point of the WiFi controllers is lowering of flow at night and a more stable ic for power.

I thought about picking up some old tunzes and programming them with my apex, but I have no need to tweak the flow patterns that much, so some random pattern generator is fine.

 

[ksed]

The Hydrowizard does 5500 gph

I'm running a Jebao RW15 and a PP15 right now. They do a great job hooked up to my controller, but the reliability of their power supplies and individual controllers is lacking but easily replaced at such a low cost.

I'd like to pick up some Maxspect Gyres at MACNA and thinking about a Panta Rhei ECM 42 Hydrowizard instead of Tunze or Vortech. The hydrowizard 42 only gets about 3000 gph, but you get the impression that this quality piece of gear will outlast everything else on the market.

 

[Knaszak]

MP's all the way yet little pricey

 

[justingraham]

MP's all the way yet little pricey

Why??? Have you tried anything else?

 

[Knaszak]

Why??? Have you tried anything else?

Have Tunze it's ok, gyre... know several hobbyists that are always replacing parts ... I love gyres but it's a hassle always removing and replacing parts that's why they give extra parts knowing it will break down...Mp 10,40 I've used for years as long as your keep the wet side clean 4/5 months they work well.. w a variety of settings, no cord in tank .... Ecotech customer service is A+... they'll help even out if warranty, upgrade pumps and lights for a reasonable price.... great experience.... Jaebo are decent although no experience with them

 

[DanP-SD]

Interesting thread. On my 300g system, I started with WAVs -- 4 of them. I found setting them up on the Apex a bit finicky. Ultimately, cut back to two. Added two Vortech MP40s and ran the tank that way for a while. Recently, I put in two Gyre 250s and removed one Vortech. So, having tried all three, here's my take:

Flow: In terms of flow, the Gyre is unique. It is the only one that moves all the water in the entire tank all the time. My impression is I would need 6-7 WAVs or 4-5 Vortechs to get every corner of my tank (albeit with more overall flow) the way the gyres do. I also note that the ability to create a more natural flow, which my corals seem to love is much easier with the Gyre. In about 30 minutes of set up, I had my elegance and goniopora flowing back and forth as they would in a natural lagoon. So Gyre wins for flow hands down. It's also a pretty easy install and setup with the new controller.

Form: In terms of form factor and aesthetics, the Vortech clearly is less intrusive than the others. But it has some limits. For example, my tank is built into a wall with the front third protruding out. There isn't enough clearance on the back to mount them there (like I did with the WAVs, which have a much thinner dry side). You also can't mount the dry side in a wet environment, like an overflow box, so you're limited to glass surfaces with a few inches of clearance. In many installs, that means the front and sides of the tank only, and could be in a fairly visible space. I'd love to see a next gen Vortech with a waterproof dry side that can be mounted in an overflow box.

Reliability: The above comments focus on the Gyre and Vortech, so about the WAVs: I think these are the best built and most reliable of the three. Initial setup is a bit finicky because you have to install and update both the 1Link module and the pumps and I had trouble getting my apex to recognize all four. But once you set them up, they work reliably and have the feel of a pump that'll last forever. I've used Gyres and Vortechs in other installs before and both need more maintenance. With the Gyre, cleaning it and reinstalling it is challenging and it is the most delicate of the three. Vortechs, in my experience, also experience problems. Occasionally, the magnets get out of alignment or the dry side slips -- especially if you ever turn it off. But they are sturdier and easier to clean than the Gyres. The WAVs really beat both hands down in this category. Mine have been running about 14 months without issue and I haven't had to take them down for a good cleaning. I just wipe off algae when I'm cleaning the glass.

Programmability: There also is a noticeable difference in customization and programmability once you get past the initial install: Once you get them setup, the WAVs are great. Changing flow patterns in Fusion is about as easy as it gets and this interface blows away the other two. The Vortech interface through Ecotech Live is pretty good when it works but, having used it for a few years on several tanks, it's frustrating. It often just doesn't work. I really wish Ecotech would do away with the Reeflink and just make a direct WiFi connection (like AquaIllumination does). The Gyre interface is a little more old-school (ie, no web interface, you program it through the controller, which has no touch screen and limited buttons), but it's effective and provides a lot of customization. It also has pre-programmed daily patterns that are easy to queue up.

Battery Backup: Lastly, it's worth noting that Vortech and Gyre both have battery backup options readily available. (Note the Gyre option is significantly less expensive). To my knowledge, the WAVs do not have such an option. You can DIY a UPS for your APEX and prioritize the WAVs to maintain flow in a power outage, but I'm not aware of a simple plug-and-play battery option like the other two have.

So, in sum, here's how I'd rate them:

Flow:
1. Gyre
2. Vortech
3. WAV

Ease of Install:
1. Vortech
2. Gyre
3. WAV

Programmability/Customization:
1. WAV
2. Gyre
3. Vortech

Build quality/Reliability:
1. WAV
2. Vortech
3. Gyre

Battery backup:
1. Gyre
2. Vortech
3. WAV

After all the data is considered, one closing point: As long as my Gyres prove reliable and serviceable (the first gen version did not, over time), I will never run a tank again without at least one Gyre. The quality flow I get with this pump and the reaction of my corals is irreplaceable.

 

[Knaszak]

Interesting thread. On my 300g system, I started with WAVs -- 4 of them. I found setting them up on the Apex a bit finicky. Ultimately, cut back to two. Added two Vortech MP40s and ran the tank that way for a while. Recently, I put in two Gyre 250s and removed one Vortech. So, having tried all three, here's my take:

Flow: In terms of flow, the Gyre is unique. It is the only one that moves all the water in the entire tank all the time. My impression is I would need 6-7 WAVs or 4-5 Vortechs to get every corner of my tank (albeit with more overall flow) the way the gyres do. I also note that the ability to create a more natural flow, which my corals seem to love is much easier with the Gyre. In about 30 minutes of set up, I had my elegance and goniopora flowing back and forth as they would in a natural lagoon. So Gyre wins for flow hands down. It's also a pretty easy install and setup with the new controller.

Form: In terms of form factor and aesthetics, the Vortech clearly is less intrusive than the others. But it has some limits. For example, my tank is built into a wall with the front third protruding out. There isn't enough clearance on the back to mount them there (like I did with the WAVs, which have a much thinner dry side). You also can't mount the dry side in a wet environment, like an overflow box, so you're limited to glass surfaces with a few inches of clearance. In many installs, that means the front and sides of the tank only, and could be in a fairly visible space. I'd love to see a next gen Vortech with a waterproof dry side that can be mounted in an overflow box.

Reliability: The above comments focus on the Gyre and Vortech, so about the WAVs: I think these are the best built and most reliable of the three. Initial setup is a bit finicky because you have to install and update both the 1Link module and the pumps and I had trouble getting my apex to recognize all four. But once you set them up, they work reliably and have the feel of a pump that'll last forever. I've used Gyres and Vortechs in other installs before and both need more maintenance. With the Gyre, cleaning it and reinstalling it is challenging and it is the most delicate of the three. Vortechs, in my experience, also experience problems. Occasionally, the magnets get out of alignment or the dry side slips -- especially if you ever turn it off. But they are sturdier and easier to clean than the Gyres. The WAVs really beat both hands down in this category. Mine have been running about 14 months without issue and I haven't had to take them down for a good cleaning. I just wipe off algae when I'm cleaning the glass.

Programmability: There also is a noticeable difference in customization and programmability once you get past the initial install: Once you get them setup, the WAVs are great. Changing flow patterns in Fusion is about as easy as it gets and this interface blows away the other two. The Vortech interface through Ecotech Live is pretty good when it works but, having used it for a few years on several tanks, it's frustrating. It often just doesn't work. I really wish Ecotech would do away with the Reeflink and just make a direct WiFi connection (like AquaIllumination does). The Gyre interface is a little more old-school (ie, no web interface, you program it through the controller, which has no touch screen and limited buttons), but it's effective and provides a lot of customization. It also has pre-programmed daily patterns that are easy to queue up.

Battery Backup: Lastly, it's worth noting that Vortech and Gyre both have battery backup options readily available. (Note the Gyre option is significantly less expensive). To my knowledge, the WAVs do not have such an option. You can DIY a UPS for your APEX and prioritize the WAVs to maintain flow in a power outage, but I'm not aware of a simple plug-and-play battery option like the other two have.

So, in sum, here's how I'd rate them:

Flow:
1. Gyre
2. Vortech
3. WAV

Ease of Install:
1. Vortech
2. Gyre
3. WAV

Programmability/Customization:
1. WAV
2. Gyre
3. Vortech

Build quality/Reliability:
1. WAV
2. Vortech
3. Gyre

Battery backup:
1. Gyre
2. Vortech
3. WAV

After all the data is considered, one closing point: As long as my Gyres prove reliable and serviceable (the first gen version did not, over time), I will never run a tank again without at least one Gyre. The quality flow I get with this pump and the reaction of my corals is irreplaceable.

Like I said earlier gyres are awesome yet many hobbyists had problems w them replacement of parts.... maybe it's different now... after two years being on the market maybe three... fill me in w reliability if you could
Thanks

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Now I heard the the jaboes are good as well but are they loud??

From time to time. I have wp10's in the 30, and it can be what we call Moguai song at night. kinda kool an haunting. the 25's do the Bass and th 10's do the hig mids....

bow fronts are tough Salty or Mcaroll any ideas?

My overall point is look at the scape and choose the tools. PLUS the box its in and what your growing. There's s a lot of techniques. Barrel roll, dual surge from the sides, full gyre, raceway, etc.but the rock and tank are key.

Low rock islands in a big tank and a couple mps slapped to the sides clearly is a no brainer. everything else is gravy and fun.

If you become a nutter like myself and seemingly insist on Tim Burtonesque Nightmare scapes, you gotta step out of the box. Jets are HIGHLY underrated and in some cases really the only tool for the job, but an Mp or jebao etc is constantly recommended. The public and suppliers have naturally abandoned the design. My self I'm eyeballing the jebao 1200dc to replace it.

were I to redo the 55 I would use two gyre pumps on the back wall pointed at each other or two 12oo dc's. The tank was originally designed as a half raceway and gyre tank. So getting a full gyre spin would be pretty easy.
I got it to spin pretty good with the Jets, the WP's lack directed push(big wide flow) two gyre pumps would just be nutty fun.

 

[Higher Thinking]

One Gyre 150 in my SPS dominate 180 gal. I have had it in the tank for about 18 months and have never cleaned it. It's the only flow source in the tank.

I may consider adding another flow source, but if everything is growing and thriving, why mess around?

Sorry the picture sucks. Phone is over three years old and camera sucks harder than a Dyson vacuum.

 

[justingraham]

Interesting thread. On my 300g system, I started with WAVs -- 4 of them. I found setting them up on the Apex a bit finicky. Ultimately, cut back to two. Added two Vortech MP40s and ran the tank that way for a while. Recently, I put in two Gyre 250s and removed one Vortech. So, having tried all three, here's my take:

Flow: In terms of flow, the Gyre is unique. It is the only one that moves all the water in the entire tank all the time. My impression is I would need 6-7 WAVs or 4-5 Vortechs to get every corner of my tank (albeit with more overall flow) the way the gyres do. I also note that the ability to create a more natural flow, which my corals seem to love is much easier with the Gyre. In about 30 minutes of set up, I had my elegance and goniopora flowing back and forth as they would in a natural lagoon. So Gyre wins for flow hands down. It's also a pretty easy install and setup with the new controller.

Form: In terms of form factor and aesthetics, the Vortech clearly is less intrusive than the others. But it has some limits. For example, my tank is built into a wall with the front third protruding out. There isn't enough clearance on the back to mount them there (like I did with the WAVs, which have a much thinner dry side). You also can't mount the dry side in a wet environment, like an overflow box, so you're limited to glass surfaces with a few inches of clearance. In many installs, that means the front and sides of the tank only, and could be in a fairly visible space. I'd love to see a next gen Vortech with a waterproof dry side that can be mounted in an overflow box.

Reliability: The above comments focus on the Gyre and Vortech, so about the WAVs: I think these are the best built and most reliable of the three. Initial setup is a bit finicky because you have to install and update both the 1Link module and the pumps and I had trouble getting my apex to recognize all four. But once you set them up, they work reliably and have the feel of a pump that'll last forever. I've used Gyres and Vortechs in other installs before and both need more maintenance. With the Gyre, cleaning it and reinstalling it is challenging and it is the most delicate of the three. Vortechs, in my experience, also experience problems. Occasionally, the magnets get out of alignment or the dry side slips -- especially if you ever turn it off. But they are sturdier and easier to clean than the Gyres. The WAVs really beat both hands down in this category. Mine have been running about 14 months without issue and I haven't had to take them down for a good cleaning. I just wipe off algae when I'm cleaning the glass.

Programmability: There also is a noticeable difference in customization and programmability once you get past the initial install: Once you get them setup, the WAVs are great. Changing flow patterns in Fusion is about as easy as it gets and this interface blows away the other two. The Vortech interface through Ecotech Live is pretty good when it works but, having used it for a few years on several tanks, it's frustrating. It often just doesn't work. I really wish Ecotech would do away with the Reeflink and just make a direct WiFi connection (like AquaIllumination does). The Gyre interface is a little more old-school (ie, no web interface, you program it through the controller, which has no touch screen and limited buttons), but it's effective and provides a lot of customization. It also has pre-programmed daily patterns that are easy to queue up.

Battery Backup: Lastly, it's worth noting that Vortech and Gyre both have battery backup options readily available. (Note the Gyre option is significantly less expensive). To my knowledge, the WAVs do not have such an option. You can DIY a UPS for your APEX and prioritize the WAVs to maintain flow in a power outage, but I'm not aware of a simple plug-and-play battery option like the other two have.

So, in sum, here's how I'd rate them:

Flow:
1. Gyre
2. Vortech
3. WAV

Ease of Install:
1. Vortech
2. Gyre
3. WAV

Programmability/Customization:
1. WAV
2. Gyre
3. Vortech

Build quality/Reliability:
1. WAV
2. Vortech
3. Gyre

Battery backup:
1. Gyre
2. Vortech
3. WAV

After all the data is considered, one closing point: As long as my Gyres prove reliable and serviceable (the first gen version did not, over time), I will never run a tank again without at least one Gyre. The quality flow I get with this pump and the reaction of my corals is irreplaceable.

Thank you for this very detailed

But I do have some questions flow u have wavs last u honestly think vortechs put more flow out? Let's put apples to apple one wav is 200 dollars so that's an mp10 for vortech not a mp60. I mean one wav at 100% is truly nasty in my tank. I'll give u the gyre as the number one in flow tho. They are nice and amazing what u can do with just one gyre.

U also have wav as last on ease of install I have had all three and I think it was the easiest one to install. Vortechs need to be centered perfectly or u get the hummmmm and the gyre and maby it was just my particular incident was way harder to set up then the wav. I literally just put the wav in the magnects are strong and it was done I do agree it is tough angleing the wav tho. But the gyre was tough setting up as like u said it's like a Nintendo when we have an Xbox. I didn't know what meant what.

I agree with everything else u said tho.
Reeflink although good can only be loaded on my iPhone not iPad it's tough working on something that small when ur trying to program stuff but I will not bash reeflink like others do as it is a good system.

 

[chefjpaul]

I appreciate the vortec more than the rest, I did have an issue with a newer one rusting.

On my new tank, Elos 120, I am running mp40 x2 & gyre 130.

I like the flow from both and together these creat great random flow. I just hate the maintenance of the gyre.

I have the gyre in the back right corner, vertical. The top propeller is aiming at the opposite corner, the bottom propeller straight across the back glass / rock, vortecs opposite sides.

I have had jabeos wp's, rw's etc.. I personally have always replaced within a year or so. Mainly the rw series, no issue with the old mp's.
When I switched to vortec, The flow and programming was the difference for me.
(Also knew I would get a P4 & they have vortec controlling).

I wont own another apex, so can not comment on wav, nor tunze, havent used either.

Being said, I beilve all these companies get "cheeper" with the newer products they produce, except I haven't personally heard the same from Tunze as a quality downward spiral.

I will say though, My 7 year old mp10 is still wuiet and kicking strong, maybe its mental, but seems to be just better than the new ones.

 

[justingraham]

I appreciate the vortec more than the rest, I did have an issue with a newer one rusting.

On my new tank, Elos 120, I am running mp40 x2 & gyre 130.

I like the flow from both and together these creat great random flow. I just hate the maintenance of the gyre.

I have the gyre in the back right corner, vertical. The top propeller is aiming at the opposite corner, the bottom propeller straight across the back glass / rock, vortecs opposite sides.

I have had jabeos wp's, rw's etc.. I personally have always replaced within a year or so. Mainly the rw series, no issue with the old mp's.
When I switched to vortec, The flow and programming was the difference for me.
(Also knew I would get a P4 & they have vortec controlling).

I wont own another apex, so can not comment on wav, nor tunze, havent used either.

Being said, I beilve all these companies get "cheeper" with the newer products they produce, except I haven't personally heard the same from Tunze as a quality downward spiral.

I will say though, My 7 year old mp10 is still wuiet and kicking strong, maybe its mental, but seems to be just better than the new ones.

I like what u did with the light cords nice
What happened with you and apex??


So what I'm seeing here is people are having what they call sucess with multiples.
An mp or wav for luminar flow and a gyre (or sea swir or motions ocean) for eraddict flow will be the best of both worlds.

So I would go out on a limb and say that instead of getting all of one type of power head it's better to mix and match.

Yes I also agree with every passing year the quality has gone down but then the following year they come up with an add on to make it quieter or wireless after u just spent a ton.

Also to the person who said ecotech stands behind there products I agree but are they reimbursing the people who lost there corals to the wet side malfunction they had? Sure they will send u out another crappy wet side by the damage is already done. If we are going to be spending this much money we shouldn't have to worry about stuff like that(Neptune as well with there probe holders) I'll pay if I know the quality is there cause in all honesty I was going to go mp40s but that wet side scared me to death. I am good with maintance but I'm not good with mituculas maintance. Like taking it a power head every week to clean it that's insane to me

 

[chefjpaul]

I like what u did with the light cords nice
What happened with you and apex??


So what I'm seeing here is people are having what they call sucess with multiples.
An mp or wav for luminar flow and a gyre (or sea swir or motions ocean) for eraddict flow will be the best of both worlds.

So I would go out on a limb and say that instead of getting all of one type of power head it's better to mix and match.

Yes I also agree with every passing year the quality has gone down but then the following year they come up with an add on to make it quieter or wireless after u just spent a ton.

Also to the person who said ecotech stands behind there products I agree but are they reimbursing the people who lost there corals to the wet side malfunction they had? Sure they will send u out another crappy wet side by the damage is already done. If we are going to be spending this much money we shouldn't have to worry about stuff like that(Neptune as well with there probe holders) I'll pay if I know the quality is there cause in all honesty I was going to go mp40s but that wet side scared me to death. I am good with maintance but I'm not good with mituculas maintance. Like taking it a power head every week to clean it that's insane to me

I agee totally about using multiple sources as they each have their own advantages.

I did get a bad wet side, but I also bought it used, my new in box...well see in time, I still haven't given up on them, as it still is a great product, every company has a bad run.

 

[justingraham]

I agee totally about using multiple sources as they each have their own advantages.

I did get a bad wet side, but I also bought it used, my new in box...well see in time, I still haven't given up on them, as it still is a great product, every company has a bad run.

I to agree it how they fix it in the future tho if they continue this way well I don't know.

And I have two vectra m1 s running my tank so I'm not bashing ecotech don't want to get the hate mail from the followers

 

[Liquid360]

Personally, I don't find these threads useful at all. Not even a little bit.

 

[justingraham]

Personally, I don't find these threads useful at all. Not even a little bit.

Cool