Friends don't let friends accept super duper tiny frags

[jordan3548]

PS if I got something that tiny they better hope they're not local:snicker:1smile1

 

[Ian]

How you would handle receiving a similar frag?

I would demand a frag the size that was advertised. That frag didn't reach even half of the minimal 1/2" description at 1/8" x 3/16", nor do I see an eye. I'd be pretty upset to receive that in a trade and I'd be furious to pay money for it.

What size frags do you feel are acceptable for each type?

I'm not going to list all corals but a chalice should be a minimum SOLID 1/2". That's about the size of a dime. Not only do they heal faster, about 5 days IME, they have a much better chance at survival.

What size do you think the coral health becomes question?

See Above. If the example frag in the OP is all you can cut, your "colony" isn't big enough to cut in the first place. I keep seeing sale threads where the "mother" is 1-1.5". That's not a colony. If you're buying corals to cut at the first possible chance, you're not buying for a love of the hobby, you're buying to make money. Period.

If your excuse is that's the only way you can afford that coral I call BS. By the time your frag pops out a new eye that you want to cut that money is long gone and you've moved on. Also, don't buy something you can't afford. There's plenty of insane corals with out a high price tag....

 

[doughboy]

I find that most times when I buy without a wysiwyg picture, I end up with micro frags.
I recently got one of the 10 for $150, though some are big, some were micro frags, and end up with about half dead after a few days (of course the guarantee is only against doa). :(
best is to get wysiwyg only (like DD with 14 days guarantee, and not just doa), or buy original ORA corals, they always come in a good size, even without wysiwyg picture.

 

[Speg]

If we're talking about survival and not price...I want my frag to be fully healed and beginning to grow onto the plug, recover flesh, or repair itself from where it was fragged.

I've only made one order through Foster and Smith, but I'll admit that I loved their frags because they wasn't fresh cut frags and they aren't still recovering from being fragged--these frags are fully healed and growing.

Not that I have too much of a problem with frags surviving, but I always appreciate a frag that has had a chance to grow a little before it goes into my tank.

 

[Emoney]

Ive had a similar issue with a vender..said frags would be one size and recieved another..To the vendors credit he refunded me %50 of my purchase price, and agreed if it didnt make it he would replace it for free..

Im not a fan of small frags at all..

z's and p's should be sold as Mature adults and fully colored up ( not babies) pleanty of heal time..
sps 1+" is fine...( allow frag to encrust some before selling
LPS depends..(chalices...1 mature eye and fully healed at leats 3/4-1"

Here are opinions that can be given in this thread:
How you would handle receiving a similar frag?
What size frags do you feel are acceptable for each type?
What size do you think the coral health becomes question?
etc..

Again, if you have specific feedback about specific vendors/individuals shipping coral that is unacceptable please post your feedback in the appropriate section.

 

[macawmagic]

What if people made frags that small, but then actually let them heal and grow untill they were acceptable to sell? Thats what I try and do just so I don't cuz a lot off my main colony. Let it sit in the frag tank for 2-3 months and then its good to actually sell.

 

[Speg]

What if people made frags that small, but then actually let them heal and grow untill they were acceptable to sell? Thats what I try and do just so I don't cuz a lot off my main colony. Let it sit in the frag tank for 2-3 months and then its good to actually sell.

There wouldn't be an issue at all then.

 

[agent462]

What if people made frags that small, but then actually let them heal and grow untill they were acceptable to sell? Thats what I try and do just so I don't cuz a lot off my main colony. Let it sit in the frag tank for 2-3 months and then its good to actually sell.

If your survival rate is as good compared to larger frags, then go ahead. Part of the problem is the stress applied to entering a new system. If you're losing small frags more frequently then it falls under poor propagation tactics. Why would we intentionally want to kill coral. Giving a coral a 50/50 shot at life is bad practice.

If a dr said, I'll cut just a tiny bit of your finger off but you'll only have a 50/50 shot at living or I'll cut your entire finger off and you have a 90% chance of living. I know what I'm picking.

 

[gooch Verified Sponsor]

If your survival rate is as good compared to larger frags, then go ahead. Part of the problem is the stress applied to entering a new system. If you're losing small frags more frequently then it falls under poor propagation tactics. Why would we intentionally want to kill coral. Giving a coral a 50/50 shot at life is bad practice.

If a dr said, I'll cut just a tiny bit of your finger off but you'll only have a 50/50 shot at living or I'll cut your entire finger off and you have a 90% chance of living. I know what I'm picking.

I wish that were true for every hobbyist. But unfortunately more and more want to take the chance to save a few dollars. There has always been the guy that wants it cheap and will take a fresh cut nub for $10-$15 over a fully healed 1-2" frag for $50. I see it almost every time I go into the LFS. Even when the owners tell them they just fragged it. They go the cheap route every time. In your case I don't think you got what you paid for but I also don't know how much you paid for it and that is none of my business. But in a lot of cases they buyer is getting exactly what they paid for but expects more. I don't sell livestock anymore. I couldn't handle the stress of it. I would get myself sick worrying about the shipments until they got into the customers hands. So I wanted to ship the healthiest animals possible. I also had a seven day guarantee and held every coral at least two weeks before I sold it.

I'm with you. I like fully healed corals that are encrusting and I will pay for them. But I have also shopped for buddies that want to save as much as possible and will take the chance on a tiny frag. Sometimes they are happy and other times they are not. But that was the chance they took.

 

[Rayzback]

There should be more frag than glue. I've been burnt on micros a couple times.. and try to buy WYSIWYG now.

 

[reefkoi]

I find that most times when I buy without a wysiwyg picture, I end up with micro frags.
I recently got one of the 10 for $150, though some are big, some were micro frags, and end up with about half dead after a few days (of course the guarantee is only against doa). :(
best is to get wysiwyg only (like DD with 14 days guarantee, and not just doa), or buy original ORA corals, they always come in a good size, even without wysiwyg picture.

very very true! I think a picture is alwasy the safest bet! If you get an excuse as to why a pic cant be provided move on.

 

[Gonzo]

very very true! I think a picture is alwasy the safest bet! If you get an excuse as to why a pic cant be provided move on.

+1

always provide pics !

 

[Troylee]

^^^^^+1 to that..... I think us as individuals and the hobby as a whole can benefit from this greatly....
If we stop buying them people will quit selling them... I have seen plenty of instances on threads even this one someone mentioned they would buy a ft that small... That coral is very sensitive and should be the last one on the list to ever be fragged that small.... Seriously you would spend 200+ on something that has no chance vs a extra 100$ that has double the survival rate??? Your already into it for a crazy amount might as well go all the way IMO..... That's just me thou... I refuse to buy fresh cut or tiny stuff now after losing well over a thousand dollars worth of sps to this.... I mean I will lose a frag every couple months or so of a bigger one but that's life... I look at it this way if I got 90 acros in my tank and one goes capoot while the tank is thriving it's not fault.. You can't keep everyone happy... Another good thing is if the sps is big enough and it's starts to rtn or STn you have a chance of fragging it and saving a piece... I could go on all dAy but these are a few examples... People need to get back into the love of the hobby not the love of the money!!!!!!!!!!!;)

 

[bamachamp92]

I think the issue is with Lps (chalices) more than sps. I fresh cut frags all the time, make them a good size, and ship them and have not had one issue with survival. I think the 250$ to 1000$ per eye price tag on some of the chalices promotes small slivers of frags because someone pays so much for a single eye as soon as they can frag a couple pieces off of it they do to get some money back. And people have to do it quick and not let things have time to mature and grow out to the point they can cut good frags because if you buy a $1000.00 frag and give it time to grow then when you sell frags six months down the road the frags are only worth 300$. This is why I havent been caught up in the chalice craze. Why not wait six months and buy the same coral for 300$.

Ok sorry, I got a little off topic. I think the reason for tiny frags is greed plain and simple, and the more people who buy these tiny specs the more sellers will keep cutting them. If you refuse to buy tiny frags then worst case is the seller whether it is a vendor or a individual will have to keep the frag till it heals and grows enough to sell it. And if they have some high frag mortality rates by keeping them a little longer they will start cutting bigger frags.

 

[subielover]

+1 Very well said

 

[Troylee]

I think the issue is with Lps (chalices) more than sps. I fresh cut frags all the time, make them a good size, and ship them and have not had one issue with survival. I think the 250$ to 1000$ per eye price tag on some of the chalices promotes small slivers of frags because someone pays so much for a single eye as soon as they can frag a couple pieces off of it they do to get some money back. And people have to do it quick and not let things have time to mature and grow out to the point they can cut good frags because if you buy a $1000.00 frag and give it time to grow then when you sell frags six months down the road the frags are only worth 300$. This is why I havent been caught up in the chalice craze. Why not wait six months and buy the same coral for 300$.

Ok sorry, I got a little off topic. I think the reason for tiny frags is greed plain and simple, and the more people who buy these tiny specs the more sellers will keep cutting them. If you refuse to buy tiny frags then worst case is the seller whether it is a vendor or a individual will have to keep the frag till it heals and grows enough to sell it. And if they have some high frag mortality rates by keeping them a little longer they will start cutting bigger frags.

this is very true..... and leads to" MAKE SURE YOU GET WYSIWYG PICS!!!!" IF THEY CANT OFFER THAT DONT BUY IT!!!! also if its that pay before i cut deal pass on it!!!!! if something is ready to be fragged there gonna frag it either way....a tiny sliver does have a better chance of survival in the tank it came from than a different one.....

 

[johnanddawn]

i've said this in some other thread as well - but i will not buy a frag that is not grown out to some degree from any vendor PERIOD!
by calling yourself a vendor it should imply that you have the facility to cut and grow out frags that are healthy and ready to take the rigors of shipping and acclimating to a new tank
so in other words, lps, sps, or zoa, its not really the size but they have at least begun to skin over the frag plug - ie if i see glue you keep it
i was just looking at a vendor site where they had an sps frag that had glubs of glue and hair algae growing on the plug that was taller then the frag :) no thanks i'll pass, no matter how cheap you sell it for

buying from hobbiest is a little different but should still always be wysiwyg.
and it doesn't take a genius to see through the guys that are chopping for profit vs those that are just prunning the crop. the people prunning the crop are obviously good at reef tank husbandry and therfore the chance of your frag surviving are greatly enhanced regardless of size and you see what your buying

bottom line i guess is as long as people are willing to forgo such standards they will continue to exist

 

[aquafrags]

its sad that some of the mysis shrimp u feed these guys are the same size as the frags. only frag I ever got that small was a Flamethrower and the first one died in the shipment. not a good practice for anybody to promote.

 

[Sikryd]

I got a frag that small, back in the beginning of collecting - It was touted as a "Tyree xyz". It didn't grow for 6+ months. When it finally got big enough to see any colors, I realized it was just plain jane junk.
By then it is too late for the buyer to have any recourse.
When they are that small, you are very lucky if they survive. Sellers know this...
Caveat Emptor

 

[gar732]

I've seen threads where tiny frags are posted and I think to my self, good luck selling that. But when you go back and check they're gone. The problem is there will always be someone to buy them, and so they will keep selling such frags. They're not worried about repeat business, just business. There are some venders and hobbyists that do right by you and those are the people that I look to deal with. I feel feedback is very important for the next guy. Its not enough just to not deal with that person again, we should let everyone know how things went so that the next guy doesn't get burned too. And those that value the positive feedback will do the right thing.