Full 110 Voltage...

[Frantz]

I decided to drill a hole in my floor and move the sump to the basement just like any normal person. The 90g display system had been set up for a few years with no issues. It had a 9.5 Mag pump. I moved everything to the basement and hooked it up and got a shock. Thinking the pump had gotten damaged when I dropped it in the sump or something I pulled it out and tried a smaller pump I had laying around.. that one shocks too. And I tried a third... shocks. So I thought maybe everything is just too wet and the current is flowing down the wire... let it go a day with just in tank flow and plugged in again and it seemed okay. But today it's shocking me again.

I've tried more than one circuit in the house (I wired it myself about 6 years ago)... but when I did I have three separate circuits in range of this area of the basement. Every circuit is on its own GFCI and none of those have tripped. All circuits are causing the shock. I had heaters in the sump too but have ruled them out, and the shock goes away anytime I unplug the pump. I do have a brand new pump ordered.. but is it just that I got unlucky and the two pumps I had sitting around lost their seal and the one I had been using went out too? Or is there something in the wiring I should test? I've plugged GFCI testers in and they all show correct wiring and functional GFCI. I just found it hard to believe I had 3 bad pumps... but I guess its possible.

 

[andrewey]

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

I could make some educated guesses, but whenever it comes to electricity and water, I try and leave it to the professionals- I'm sure some of our resident electricians or knowledgeable reefers will be here shortly to help you out!

 

[andrewey]

Also, if you get a chance, I'm sure the rest of the site would love to meet you if you made a post about yourself and your tank in the meet and greet forum!

 

[nereefpat]

You have a voltage tester, and it's reading 110 volts? I would individually unplug each piece of equipment until <5 volts or so is showing. Then throw the culprit in the garbage.

Odd that a GFCI isn't tripping. Have tried to trip them manually? They usually have test buttons. You can also manually trip them by sticking a wire between the ground and neutral.

 

[ADAM]

If you put a powerhead in the sump and power it on do you get the stray voltage also?

 

[Frantz]

So updating... It was a power head.... It's on an intermittent switch so the first time it shocked me and I unplugged the main pump it was a coincidence that the shock went away at the same time.... Also coincidence that it happened the same time I was moving the sump. And that explains why I thought I was in the clear with another pump but then it went back and shocked me... I was chasing the wrong offender. I'll keep an eye on things... Yeah, Volt meter actually showed 111V.

On the GFCI... I did my own home wiring, but I'm no electrician... But it's an old farm house and i replaced some rotten knob and tube with all new 12g wire and new breakers, so even if I didn't do everything right, it's a heck of a lot safer than it was! GFCI trips when it detects amperage drop not voltage... so I'm thinking if I hooked up a grounding wire to the tank it would trip, but the water in a plastic tank doesn't really discharge and I only touched it long enough to feel the shock then switched to the volt meter. Am I thinking that through correct? Of course, I don't necessary want it to trip for such leakage, as the fish will be mostly fine with some voltage but no flow would be a bad thing.

And thanks for the welcomes! I'll probably be around more.... The tank is in need of some more effort, and better lighting. I had a nice tank around a decade ago when I lived in Atlanta, and some of my coral frags survived the trip and are still doing well in the current tank, but it's not photo ready just yet. The sump upgrade was supposed to be part of that effort!

 

[nereefpat]

GFCI trips when it detects amperage drop not voltage... so I'm thinking if I hooked up a grounding wire to the tank it would trip, but the water in a plastic tank doesn't really discharge and I only touched it long enough to feel the shock then switched to the volt meter. Am I thinking that through correct? Of course, I don't necessary want it to trip for such leakage, as the fish will be mostly fine with some voltage but no flow would be a bad thing.

I'm glad you found the offender.

You seem to be thinking about it correctly. Since the tank isn't grounded, the GFCI won't trip. But, when you stick your hand in the tank and get shocked (some current going through you), that should trip the GFCI.

 

[GaryE]

You need a ground probe in your tank to make the GFCI work.

 

[nereefpat]

You need a ground probe in your tank to make the GFCI work.

I disagree.

 

[GaryE]

I disagree.

You don't have to agree, but it's been proven.

 

[fishguy242]

ground probes ,both tank and sump,sep circuits,depending on size of tank put two in tank,always better safe than sorry ,for a mere 30-40$
btw..welcome to the reef

 

[nereefpat]

You don't have to agree, but it's been proven.

Any fault to ground, including you sticking your hand in the tank while touching the floor, or metal light, etc will trip the GFCI.

 

[Frantz]

Is it because the pump that went bad only had hot and neutral? I'm thinking if I had a probe it would have tripped regardless, but because it was just a 2 prong plug it didn't trip and I'd need to hit 20a at the breaker. Right?

 

[fishguy242]

not to disagree w any here ,had power bar with fuse ,plugged directly into dedicated gfci ,lucky i was there ,salt creep arced started flames 10-15 seconds til gfci tripped,power bar never even popped fuse,just putting out there ,i would have considered 2x safety best safe than sorry

 

[nereefpat]

but because it was just a 2 prong plug it didn't trip and I'd need to hit 20a at the breaker. Right?

The first part is correct.

The part I quoted above isn't. The GFCI should trip when you stick your hand in the tank, because you have now created a 'ground fault.' Something maybe isn't right. I really would test the gfci by pushing the test button, and also by jumpering the neutral and ground holes. It should trip in both cases.

@Brew12 , any comment here?

 

[BZOFIQ]

You don't have to agree, but it's been proven.

GFCI doesnt need ground to work.

It measures current flowing from Hot to Neutral. Any time the current takes a different path, say through you to the ground it will trip.

That said, you should have a ground probe but not for the reason stated earlier.

 

[Frantz]

So... I forgot that since it wasn't the pump... it also wasn't any of the outlets I was thinking about, and testing... I'll have to get back to get back to where the outlet is the power heads are wired too pulls from. Now I have to think back... I had a GFCI tripping all the time and part of me wonders if I bypassed it for the one outlet. I thought it was a light that was causing it. I'll have to move the couch and pull the outlet and see how it's wired...

What makes the most sense is to assume I did something wrong at some point!

 

[BZOFIQ]

I'm surprised @Brew12 hasnt chimed in here.

 

[Brew12]

@Brew12 , any comment here?

I'm surprised @Brew12 hasnt chimed in here.

Thanks for the call out guys. I've been busy with a problem on a 500kV line. I actually had to do my job...

 

[Brew12]

Odd that a GFCI isn't tripping. Have tried to trip them manually? They usually have test buttons. You can also manually trip them by sticking a wire between the ground and neutral.

Actually, sticking a wire between ground and neutral shouldn't trip a GFCI. The ground and neutral should be bonded together in the panel at a point past the breaker.

So updating... It was a power head....

I'm glad you found it! I would absolutely verify that outlet is on a circuit protected by a GFCI breaker. It sounds like it should have tripped.

On the GFCI... I did my own home wiring, but I'm no electrician.

As long as you bonded the the neutral and ground together after the breaker in the panel, it should work if your tester shows it ok. Even better if your outlet tester also has a GFCI tester. Mine not only has the lights, but has a button to push to trip the GFCI. Removes all doubt that it works.

You need a ground probe in your tank to make the GFCI work.

You don't, but they do complement each other very well.

Is it because the pump that went bad only had hot and neutral? I'm thinking if I had a probe it would have tripped regardless, but because it was just a 2 prong plug it didn't trip and I'd need to hit 20a at the breaker. Right?

No, the ground prong has very little to do with a GFCI breaker or outlet. You can use GFCI outlets on older 2 wired circuits without a ground wire and they still provide protection.

GFCI doesnt need ground to work.

It measures current flowing from Hot to Neutral. Any time the current takes a different path, say through you to the ground it will trip.

That said, you should have a ground probe but not for the reason stated earlier.

+1, Couldn't have said it any better myself!