Gasman's(Bob) 110 REbuild

Gasman · Jul 6, 2015

Hi Everyone! I decided to try to transfer my tank build from my home club at TCMAS.org . This will take quite a while (look at this dates at the bottom of each post) to get done but, bear with me.

Started with a 110 with everything HOB. It was time to do it right so......Here's some pic's of the progress so far.... As you can tell in the pics the sump's home is in the basement.

It may take awhile for me to learn how to load the pics from photobucket to here...

Brian (ArstenA) made the sump....what a beast it is, all outer sections are 1/2" thick.

A wheeled cart for the sump lined with ....I think it was stair tread.

I really like how it turned out with the smoked tint!!

Made an actual "Mixing Station" now. It's still a mess but getting closer.

Upgraded the RO/DI.

The Apex and other things coming together. I added a WaterBug and sensor to trip an alarm on the Apex if the cart or floor see water. I will have the same thing going on by the tank upstairs.

The holes are drilled for the overflow..... Yeah, I know the tank needs a better cleaning in this pic, I took care of that already! I forgot how pathetic the flowery couch looks...until now, it wasn't my idea! I think new furniture just went higher on the "to do" list.

Well thats enough for one night. I'll keep adding as it progresses
Last edited by gasman; 01-03-2013 at 01:48 AM.

Gasman · Jul 6, 2015

I really am not liking plumbing the new sump system!!!! Every time I get moving there's yet another fitting I need to go get or wait for BRS to send. I think I have more fittings now than the store I'm getting them from. Lately its like Norm walking into Cheers when I go into the hardware store.......BOB!!!!!

I planned it all out but see better ways to do some things as I put it together. ...And that's also usually about the time I run out of beer, When I really could use 1!!!!!
Last edited by gasman; 01-14-2013 at 12:38 AM.

Gasman · Jul 6, 2015

Here's a little bit more of what's been done....at a snails pace.

I added a few 2x8's to the floor trusses where the tank will be sitting to firm up the floor. It was working ok when it was set up before but a bit "bouncy", I hope this will help a little bit. This is a small house and the trusses are not going the way that's best for supporting the tank(and my fat self).

This is still a mess, it's a work in progress...endlessly!

Got the fuge light ready to go.

Pump and Bio pellet reactor hooked up. It's hard to see in this photo that I plumbed the reactor to be recirculating, there is a mag drive 3 pump hidden behind the reactor. I'll try to get a better pic of this later on. I noticed a few recirculating reactors that use the recirculating pump itself to draw in water from the sump, I'm having the sump return pump feed this reactor. The reason I went this route is so I didn't have to prime the pump manually to get things running, I will just open a little flow to it from the return pump manifold and fill the reactor that way( I hope it will work ok like this, time will tell).

I am working on the drain lines now...and few beers to help. Will post more as things take shape.
Last edited by gasman; 01-20-2013 at 12:07 PM.

Gasman · Jul 6, 2015

Here's an update as it continues........

I have now run most of the drain piping from upstairs to the sump. Here's the 2 drain lines, 1 return line and the Aquabus cable coming from the Apex by the sump.

The pipes as they come out of the trusses and down towards the sump.

Here's how the lines enter the sump piping.

You may be wondering what those 2 white lines are coming out of the drain lines...these are air vents. I have a bit of twisting and turning (and 2 lines going into 1 larger one) going on down by the sump and I want to prevent any siphoning from starting here because of this. The open end of the tubing goes up higher than the drain shut off valves and terminates right above the sump. If water would some how back up and come out the vent line the sump gets it.

Another vent further down the line.

Here's where the air vent line ends in the return area of the sump.

This is where the drain line ends above the filter socks. I still need to finish this part going into the filter socks.

...And because all along I wanted to be able to move the sump to get back to the storage area if needed.......I added a union so I can raise the piping up out of the way.

I added a EB4 to my Apex because I found the the dosing pumps wouldn't always shut off when the Apex turned them off...low wattage loads(like dosing pumps) sometimes don't shut off when on an electronic switch. The right 2 outlets on the EB8 and ALL outlets on the EB4 are relay (mechanical) controlled to stop this problem

The piping & Apex cable go up to the living room. The blue line is from the RO/DI going up the the top-off pail for the 30 gal QT where all my angry fish are right now!

The piping coming through the floor in the living room.

Well that's enough for now....the fun continues!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by gasman; 02-11-2013 at 05:01 PM.

Gasman · Jul 6, 2015

Tonight I finished the water change piping. I'm lazy and really don't like hauling buckets of water around so that's why this was added. I added 2 Magdrive 12's to do this, 1 is in the saltwater mixing container and the other is in the sump by the skimmer. All are plumbed in 1" line. The pump in the sump's skimmer area pumps out water the the utility tub over in the laundry area and new saltwater comes into the sump return section. I was thinking about pumping out waste water from the return pump manifold but, I want to run waste and new saltwater at the same time. If I used the sump return line to pump out waste water I would be also sending quite a bit of new saltwater to the utility tub as well......kinda defeats the purpose of doing the water change. I have some additional wiring to do on the Apex but, for the most part, the sump is ready to go now. I have to start building a stand and canopy for the tank, I certainly hope it will go a bit easier than this sump plumbing did!!!!

Ceiling above the sump is getting a little busy with 2 more lines added.

2 more valves added, braided line is coming from the saltwater mixing container, the white Spaflex is going the utility tub in the laundry area.

Hard to see the piping in this photo of how the to lines are plumbed, have to look below the white drain line. It's the gray schedule 80 PVC.

Apparently I should have not used auto-focus on this shot and didn't see how bad it turned out till I downloaded the pics, Oh well.....that's one of the Magdrive pumps.

The new drain line into the utility tub.

Will post more pics as the stand and canopy take shape.
Last edited by gasman; 03-04-2013 at 01:26 AM.

Gasman · Jul 6, 2015

OK, So I wasn't quite done with the sump yet. As I was ready to continue with the stand and canopy I realized how much stuff was still left on the sump(not to mention my battle that continues with the Apex system). Thought I would add a few more pics of more things that I did since the last post.

Insulated the PVC drain line coming down from the living room.

Finished the wiring to the WaterBug and Breakout box.

The Monster surge suppressor and power filter.

A little better pic of the Mag drive 3 that does the recirculation through the bio-pellet reactor. Still not the best photo, will have to try again later.

The left side goes in to the fuge, the right 1 goes to the skimmer section.

The supply line coming from the bio-pellet reactor near the intake for the skimmer pump.

Dosing pumps set to go.

Dosing jugs. I built a makeshift rack for these jugs. I made it to hold 5 (holds a couple spare jugs).

Hard to see but, on the left all the dosing lines,ATO line and Drain vent line terminate above the water line, on the right is the pH probe and backup float switch that's wired to the Breakout box for the Apex.

Still have to tidy up the wiring yet but, close to done.

And this little box is WAAAAAAY past ticking me off!!!!!!!! Read this thread:
http://www.tcmas.org/v4/forums/showt...perature-spike

That's it for now, my main concern continues to be the problems I am experiencing with the phantom Apex temperature spikes. Will let you know whats going on as it happens.
Last edited by gasman; 03-28-2013 at 12:09 AM.

Gasman · Jul 6, 2015

Ehmmmm......no Apex for the moment. According to UPS tracking Neptune received it on Friday so, we shall see what they find.

The heat sink for the LED build showed up............what the *@#% was I thinking?!!!
.....Oh well, will just have to think how I'm going to mount the new 50 lb paperweight into the canopy(10.08" x 48"). The LED's should find as much cooling as they will EVER need with this beast!!!!!!!!

Now on to the stand and canopy( I hope), and to wait for what Neptune has to say.
Last edited by gasman; 04-07-2013 at 10:55 PM.

Gasman · Jul 6, 2015

Concerning the temperature spikes I was getting on the Apex.........here's what I found out about the Apex today with a phone call to Neptune and a little "prying" for information. They found an IC (Chip) in the base unit operating only marginally and replaced it. This IC is responsible for data logging and data memory(from what they were telling me). I then asked about a portion my Apex App not working right on my Android phone. They said the portion on the app I was having troubles with is also related to this IC in the base unit and should be OK now. It's on its way back from Neptune so, we shall see but, things are looking up as they did actually find a problem with the base unit. There was no charge for the repair even though it was technically out of warranty by 2 months. I did refer them back to my threads on the forum so they could see the time stamps of my posts (which were made during the warranty period). The person I talked with said this was not a typical failure they see which would explain why I had a hard time finding info on the problems I was having.
Last edited by gasman; 04-10-2013 at 05:11 PM.

Gasman · Jul 6, 2015

UPDATE....Just reinstalled the Apex back in place, all is ok SO FAR. I found something interesting with my problem with the Apex App, If I put in my home IP # in the App instead of using the DNS service I can view all the outlets and profiles(1st time it did this). If I try to use the DNS site I connect but, cant get at the outlet profiles again.....I can turn on/off/auto the outlets but don't dare touch the tabs labeling what they are, if I do it tries to load and never stops trying.....I have to kill the app and restart it again to do anything else....its really weird. Not sure what the difference is between using the DNS service and just inputting my IP address directly.

Last edited by gasman; 04-17-2013 at 08:45 PM.

Gasman · Jul 6, 2015

This stand looked like it would be SO SIMPLE....NOT!!!

I originally bought a stand/canopy plan off Ebay that said just to use veneer covered plywood on everything including the front panel. I stopped by a plywood manufacturer in Buffalo to talk to them about what plywood to use.

Well, I found out everything I EVER needed to know about plywood. They showed me all the different types of plywood and how each one is made. I also had the good fortune of talking to a cabinet maker there and he took a look at my Ebay plans and the first thing he asked me was " Do you want it to look like furniture or a piece of S***?" ( referring to my Ebay plans).

I told him I wanted something nice to look at(furniture). From that point on the only thing I used off the plan was the dimensions, the rest we "re-worked". I built a face frame from red oak boards, this is how your cabinets in your kitchen are made. I assembled the face frame using Pocket Screws(Google Kreg jig) and wood glue. There is a learning curve to using pocket screws!!! First thing I learned is the pieces you are joining MUST BE CLAMPED TIGHTLY TOGETHER AND TO A FLAT SURFACE using a clamp on EACH piece of the joint when making the joint!!!! I used the Kreg clamps along with pipe clamps.

AGAIN.....The joint must be clamped against a flat surface and pulled together with other clamps before you try to drive the screws. If you don't do this.... one of the boards on the joint will jump up when you tighten the screws and I have found the house cant hold enough beer to make it alright again when this happens.

If your going into hardwood use fine thread screws, soft wood gets the coarse thread screws. If you try to use the coarse thread screws on hardwood you'll split the wood!!!!! The big box hardware stores handle these screws but they are usually not in the "screw isle" rather, they are next to where they sell the pocket screw jigs on the other side of the store.

Since I have no work bench (and no wife to stop me) I used the center island in the kitchen to clamp my face frame boards together and assembled them. Its amazing how little imperfections can be erased with a sander, I used a random orbital one and it turned out great, all the joints were so flush the entire face frame felt like one piece of wood....SWEET!!!!!

Next I had to select the veneer plywood I was going to use for the rest of the stand. I decided(with lots of help) on something called lumber core plywood( http://www.hooddistribution.com/reso...ore_types.html )
. It has a Red Oak veneer with a aspen or basswood core(solid boards glued side by side, not ply's). Its strong stuff and you'll usually never find this in a "Big Box" store. Cabinet makers use it when they need strength...and it comes at a premium.

Veneers come in many "cut" styles ( http://www.finelumber.com/veneer_cuts.html ). The least expensive is called rotary cut which works just fine and look good but for the outside panels on my stand I got a sheet of something called plain sliced veneer, the wood grains on this really look amazing (at $104 a sheet they better). Stand the plywood with the ends of this "core" wood supporting the weight(vertically most of the time on a tank stand).

Here's a few picks of the progress so far. I have the core of the stand done now, I still need to do the molding detail work on it. If you look at the photos you can see I built a "stand in a stand" to beef it up. Will add more as it progresses. There is a back panel made for the stand which I haven't attached yet. This back panel will just be screwed down(no glue) so it can be removed and a sump can be placed in the stand if needed someday, as you already know there will be no sump here in my setup....just planning ahead for the next person that might own this. All other joints have screws AND glue. The pocket screws are supposed to be good enough without the glue but, I added the glue so I could feel better about myself!!!!

Special thanks goes out to Mr Bill for his input also!!!

Last edited by gasman; 05-21-2013 at 09:29 PM.

Gasman · Jul 6, 2015

Just placed my order for LED's today while they were 10% off
Here's what I decided on;

Your Order Contains...
Cart Items SKU Qty Item Price Item Total
24 Solderless LED Kit Dimmable
(Lens Color: Black, Lens Width: 80 Degree, Driver Type: D (1-10V analog), Thermal Compound Type: Arctic Alumina Thermal Adhesive, Wire Length: 6", LED Color Ratio: 14 violet UV,4 CREE XP-E Deep Red LED ,6 CREE XP-E Blue LED. The UV needs the "UV" lens?)

24KIT-PNP-DIM 1 $200.00 USD $200.00 USD
48 Solderless LED Kit Dimmable
(Lens Color: Black, Lens Width: 80 Degree, Driver Type: D (1-10V analog), Thermal Compound Type: Arctic Alumina Thermal Adhesive, Wire Length: 6", LED Color Ratio: 30 CREE XT-E Royal Blue LED,18 CREE XP-G Neutral White LED , thanks!)

48KIT_SL_DIM 1 $385.00 USD $385.00 USD
6" LED to LED Wire (Solderless)

LED-LED-SL-6 10 $0.25 USD $2.50 USD
80 Degree CREE XP-E/XP-G Lens/Optics (White/Black)
(Lens Color: Black)

8 $1.25 USD $10.00 USD
Solderless CREE XP-E Blue LED
(Wire Length: 6")

XPE-BLUE-SL 2 $3.60 USD $7.20 USD
Solderless CREE XP-E Green LED
(Wire Length: 6")

XPE-GR-SL 4 $4.25 USD $17.00 USD
Solderless CREE XT-E Royal Blue LED
(Wire Length: 6")

XTE-SL 6 $3.50 USD $21.00 USD
Solderless LED Plug

PLUG-SL 2 $0.75 USD $1.50 USD
Subtotal: $644.20 USD
Coupon Code (MEM2013): -$64.54 USD
Shipping: $0.00 USD
Grand Total: $579.66 USD<<<<<<<<<<

Still haven't found the bottom of the sink hole called the "Pit-Of-Cash"

Last edited by gasman; 05-27-2013 at 11:51 PM.

Gasman · Jul 6, 2015

Getting a little farther on the stand. Does anyone know where I can get some nice crown moulding or accent strips. My only practical source has been Menards......would be nice to have a local cabinet supply for a better selection!

Last edited by gasman; 06-03-2013 at 10:45 PM.

Gasman · Jul 6, 2015

Ok, Thought maybe I would update this thread a bit.

I have pretty much completed the build part of the stand....with a canopy to go yet.

Below are some pictures of how the stand is shaping up. Keep in mind I am NO cabinet maker!! I have plenty of filling and sanding to do yet before I stain and finish it. Will be doing both the canopy and the stand at the same time so there is no color variance.

It's really good people around here didn't hear how much I swore while building this!!!! ....What a PITA!

Have a look.......

In this pic you can see I used a router to "freehand " cut in the platform to channel leaking water should the need arise. There is a drain going through the platform and inside the cabinet where I have a container mounted. In the container will be a water sensor so, I will know something is happening, if you look at the connection in the cabinet I set it up so I can screw on a garden hose if need be.

Some more views from different angles

Not sure yet on the color I'm going to stain it. Any suggestions? Remember it's Red Oak.
Last edited by gasman; 07-22-2013 at 08:42 PM.

Gasman · Jul 7, 2015

Here's an update on the canopy......photo-wise.

crappy cell camera pics but you get an idea how it's going

It seems endless but, keep plugging away.

will post more later.....still waiting on doors to arrive (they will look like a small version of the doors on the stand), still need to do finishing sanding to get rid of the glue that you can see in the pics
Last edited by gasman; 09-16-2013 at 08:25 PM.

Gasman · Jul 7, 2015

I built a pine frame with the dimensions of the tank tonight. here's a few pics of how its shaping up so far......

Doors have been the PITA on the canopy build..........still waiting.

Gasman · Jul 7, 2015

Yeah, doors do help the canopy look better!!!!!!

dang cat already sizing it up to see how much easier access will be to the bird cage!!!!

Last edited by gasman; 09-27-2013 at 12:35 AM.

Gasman · Jul 7, 2015

Hi everyone!!! I am back at it again. Starting to dive back in to it in a small way to start. For those of you that have an auto-off system that is in a container that has a float and always has RO/DI running to it AND notices how much DI resin your going through.....I have a way to slow down the DI resin consumption. If you have a TDS meter hooked up before your DI containers you'll notice on the start of water production the TDS will be high at 1st coming out of the RO unit then settle down as is continues to produce water. If you are having short times of water production(like filling up an ATO container every time it activates) your really never letting the high TDS from the RO unit settle down much before it shuts off again........and the DI has to soak up the high TDS. I added a bladder tank like you would use for a RO drinking water system and tee'd it into my production water line to store more water during the production cycle and let that 1st big TDS hit go down. The system is running less and the depletion of the DI has slowed A LOT!!!!!!! I know there are other ways to do this like only making water once a day or having a controller turn on a water valve once a day but, here's another fix that seems to have really helped. I'm trying to be as automated as possible. I did add a check valve upstream of the bladder tank so once the tank is full the pressure wont drive water back at the DI cartridges.

Gasman · Jul 7, 2015

OOOOOOOH, I really am beginning to hate this part of the build(supposed to be the easiest part of all this.....NOT!!!!). Stain isn't taking to the Oak like it should, the topcoat won't cooperate................Where's that beer again?