Getting Ready to Cycle the 125 Tank

[Pennywise67]

Ok I have all the plumbing mocked up in the garage on the tank and sump. So next step is to move the tank from Garage to the final destination in the living room, then glue all the PVC connections and get ready to add water.

Here is what I plan on doing ( and opinions are very welcome!). Plan on starting with 70lbs of Live base rock from Tampa Bay Saltwater. In addition I have 40lbs of Dry Caribsea Liferock ( white) and 20lbs of the Liferock Purple ( Some arches and shelf pieces). 40lbs of carib sea Dry Special Grade sand, and 20lbs of Live Special grade sand.

I will order the TBS rock, and have 150 gallon of RO/DI water made and stored in Brute Cans. When I get a delivery date for the TBS Rock, mix Saltwater. When TBS arrives transfer live Rock, as much Dry rock as needed ( leaving room for possibly purchasing some of the TBS Premium Rock if desired) and start the cycle. Does anyone see any flaws in this approach? Any better ways to go at it?

Couple of questions for the cycle? I am assuming I should be ghost feeding during this time correct? Anything else I should be adding?
Lights ( G6 XR15 Blues x2) on or off? since I am starting with 70lbs of live I am assuming run a short light cycle per day.

Planning to run Reefmatt 500, so have that running while cycling or just use filter socks during this time?

Skimmer running and skimming or just have it set up and running for the water agitation?

Anything I am missing? I have all the Salifert testers kits and also Hannah Checkers ( I like to validate the results using dual methods for sanity) its the Engineer in me LOl. Let me know if i am on the right track or need to rethink my logic. Thanks!!

-Larry

 

[jda]

That TBS base rock should have everything that you need. Once the water is clear, you should be all set to add some fish - slowly and smartly. If you have patience and can wait a few weeks for more fish, I would not even test too much.

Just know that your tank will not be cycled, as in done, but it will be at a place in the cycle where you can support a fish load. The stuff from the rocks will spread and the tank will get more dynamic and be able to handle more of a fish load as time progresses.

Run the skimmer. The gas exchange is too important, IMO.

I don't use rollers or filter socks - never saw the need. I have no opinion on these.

I would get the lights up to normal timeframe. Even without corals, there are things in your tank that are photosynthetic. You also want the algae and ugly phases to begin.

As for test kits, Segal's law is too real. You have to get to where you just trust one thing and that becomes your baseline. For me, it is salifert for Alk and Calcium and Hannah Ultra Low for phosphorous. I don't really test for much else. A man with two test kits never knows what his parameters really are. The JDA 3 states of engineering are 1). figuring out that you can do things. 2). figuring out that you can do lots of things and then 3). figuring out that most of the things that you can do do not matter. Get to step three were you don't need to obsess over a 8.7 Salifert dKh test compared to a 9.4 dKh test with Hannah... it just does not matter. Engineers that are stuck in #2 are never as effective... the paralysis by analysis crowd.

 

[brandon429]

when you add seventy pounds of live rock your cycle is opposite of what you read about

what you read about is adding bacteria, ghost feeding, to try and establish bacteria but this won't require that, 70 lbs of live rock handles any bioload in reefing when it's in a display. the dry rock you add doesn't matter, it doesn't need supports because 70 is enough in 100% of cases. that uncycled rock simply takes on free bac over time and you don't need to test anything in this cycle. add the rocks, choose and implement a fish disease protocol (as opposed to just adding them without one, they'll die, see the disease forum) and begin.

your issue of concern isn't the cycle, live rock has that done already, your issue is fish disease prevention and that takes a LOT of work and planning.

a fish disease protocol from the disease forum has a time wait that you apply to your display tank. during that time wait, any slight dieoff from live base rock will have resolved. this is a testless cycle for sure. don't ghost feed: it's wasting input into the tank that won't be eaten and your bacteria won't die.

when you have life in the tank, then begin feeding and it'll be fine. that live rock has organics in it, in the cracks and crevices, and this feeds its bacteria for years even if you never fed it. the bacteria in this cycle cannot starve. no care for them is needed other than to be in water.

 

[BubblesandSqueak]

what tank are you setting up? (just says 125g) post pics of your progress.
I'll be doing the same in a couple months but personally, plan to wait a few weeks after the live rock to see what develops. the LFS should "rent" aiptasia eating file fish.

 

[Pennywise67]

when you add seventy pounds of live rock your cycle is opposite of what you read about

what you read about is adding bacteria, ghost feeding, to try and establish bacteria but this won't require that, 70 lbs of live rock handles any bioload in reefing when it's in a display. the dry rock you add doesn't matter, it doesn't need supports because 70 is enough in 100% of cases. that uncycled rock simply takes on free bac over time and you don't need to test anything in this cycle. add the rocks, choose and implement a fish disease protocol (as opposed to just adding them without one, they'll die, see the disease forum) and begin.

your issue of concern isn't the cycle, live rock has that done already, your issue is fish disease prevention and that takes a LOT of work and planning.

a fish disease protocol from the disease forum has a time wait that you apply to your display tank. during that time wait, any slight dieoff from live base rock will have resolved. this is a testless cycle for sure. don't ghost feed: it's wasting input into the tank that won't be eaten and your bacteria won't die.

when you have life in the tank, then begin feeding and it'll be fine. that live rock has organics in it, in the cracks and crevices, and this feeds its bacteria for years even if you never fed it. the bacteria in this cycle cannot starve. no care for them is needed other than to be in water.

Fish will either be QT'd in a QT Tank, but for the first purchase I may just by Quarantined from Dr Reef. I was thinking the 70lbs should be enough, but the first time using dry rock. Back when I was very into Reef tanks Late 90-eraly 2000's it was order 200lbs of Fiji or Tongan live Rock go to LAX pick up, Cure it and go ( or get it from a wholesaler down in LA who already cured it).

Thanks for the input, I was way overthinking it. LOL

-Larry

 

[jda]

I don't mean to be a bummer, but people have reported disease with fish from Dr. Reef and all of the other full-QT places, as well. I have no idea if they are real or not, but I would not trust anything that you do not do with full control in your own hands.

Even if they fish are not fully disease free, there are benefits from buying from a pre-"QT' place since these fish usually eat and have passed a few weeks and are not dead.

...just adjust your expectations along the lines that the fish might not be disease free, and that might help out in the future.

Also, if you are going to go full-on QT, you need to let that rock sit fallow past all of the disease life cycle days since tomonts and stuff can be on live rock. If you wait this long, I would certainly introduce some ammonia into the tank or get some shrimp and inverts to feed.

 

[brandon429]

a problem with that is all the corals and cuc you stock afterwards will undo the qt initial you paid for

see this thread on how to prevent that:

Has anyone done coral/inverts only and no fish at first?

Fish seem to be the main cause of disruption in a display tank, given the current circumstances in the hobby with pests (ich, velvet, parasites, etc.). I have been in this hobby for 18 years, and the amount of pests that are showing up lately is much more (could also be the fact that we have...

www.reef2reef.com

(fish go in last, perhaps a year + after setup once the reef is nearly completely stocked)

few want to do it this way, which is why the disease forum is so busy. disease preps are required to keep fish living beyond 8 months on average, posts in the disease forum show. 100% of your concern is the disease issue vs the cycle.

if you add anything wet from a pet store after buying the qt fish, that's the same as not buying qt fish. water brings in disease, all added items have to pass through fallow preps.

 

[Pennywise67]

That TBS base rock should have everything that you need. Once the water is clear, you should be all set to add some fish - slowly and smartly. If you have patience and can wait a few weeks for more fish, I would not even test too much.

Just know that your tank will not be cycled, as in done, but it will be at a place in the cycle where you can support a fish load. The stuff from the rocks will spread and the tank will get more dynamic and be able to handle more of a fish load as time progresses.

Run the skimmer. The gas exchange is too important, IMO.

I don't use rollers or filter socks - never saw the need. I have no opinion on these.

I would get the lights up to normal timeframe. Even without corals, there are things in your tank that are photosynthetic. You also want the algae and ugly phases to begin.

As for test kits, Segal's law is too real. You have to get to where you just trust one thing and that becomes your baseline. For me, it is salifert for Alk and Calcium and Hannah Ultra Low for phosphorous. I don't really test for much else. A man with two test kits never knows what his parameters really are. The JDA 3 states of engineering are 1). figuring out that you can do things. 2). figuring out that you can do lots of things and then 3). figuring out that most of the things that you can do do not matter. Get to step three were you don't need to obsess over a 8.7 Salifert dKh test compared to a 9.4 dKh test with Hannah... it just does not matter. Engineers that are stuck in #2 are never as effective... the paralysis by analysis crowd.

I always expect a discrepancy between two different test methods so I wont be running correlation studies between the two LOL. Every Inspection Tool is calibrated and Verified for Design Function, so kinda why I may use 2 different style tests. But I understand and agree with the point. over 20 years designing and building Medical Devices to be implanted in the Ventricles in your Brain and now doing Spinal Implants Ive learned a few things. Before that I was a door kicker for the 75th RR, so I was never very good at being in the "paralysis" crowd. LOL I'm the one that's always send it and and we will adjust. LOL

I'll get the tank up and running, check to make sure all is in parameters after a few days and just keep up routine monitoring and slowly add it to it.

I'm in no rush to fully stock the tank. I've kept very successful reef tanks back in the late 90's/ early 2000's and have been out awhile. Some things have changed but I am seeing a lot of techniques that really haven't.

I appreciate the input

- Larry

 

[Pennywise67]

what tank are you setting up? (just says 125g) post pics of your progress.
I'll be doing the same in a couple months but personally, plan to wait a few weeks after the live rock to see what develops. the LFS should "rent" aiptasia eating file fish.

Im horrible at taking pics. LOL. I will get some today when it cools off. Its only a 115 real feel in Memphis. But I have a introduction post that goes into tank details. But its a Glasscages 48x24x25.

 

[jda]

If you take a similar approach to fish as you might have in the 90s, then you can be ok. Your live rock purchase will help a lot. Remember back then when folks would wait 6 months to buy an expensive fish? This was mostly so that the microfauna from the rocks could spread to the sand and help with fish diseases. This is not eradication, but it does give the diseases some hardship that they do not suffer in sterile petri-dish type of tanks started with dry/dead rock.

Even then, there is some benefit to having another tank set up to observe fish and to get them eating and not scared of you. This is also not QT, but you can make sure that the fish are eating well and appear healthy. I do recommend this, at least.

I do not do full-scale QT and have no intention to do so. I will never QT all of my corals in inverts and know that something will sneak it, so I just give the fish the best start that I can in observation tanks, get them on pellets, do a FW dip for large angels and then put them in the tanks after a month or two of observation. I also have a diverse ecosystem where ich and other tomonts falling into the sand can become food. I have not had a disease impact a fish in probably 20 years. I would never do this in my display, but I have put ich riddled fish into one of my observation tanks and the ich disappears and none of the other fish in there get it - these tanks have sand and microfauna in them as well. I have given these fish back to their owners after the fallow period.

In the end, chemistry and biology have not changed in our lifetimes so what you did in 1990s still works today.

 

[MnFish1]

In the end, chemistry and biology have not changed in our lifetimes so what you did in 1990s still works today.

I agree with your post - except - though biology and chemistry have not changed in our lifetimes, at least according to some people the supply chain has (some for the positive - i.e. less cyanide faster shipments, etc, some for the negative - potentially more diseased fish).

To the OP - As far as CUC, coral, etc adding disease to your tank - that is not likely especially if you purchase your coral from a local good quality store (assuming you have one near you). Or - you purchase from a place (for the CUC) - that has their product in a fish free area. I have never QT'd fish (at my house) - however I always buy them pre-quarantined - and I always buy from the same place - where I can buy fish, I can order them, when they arrive at the store, they, are QT'd and are observed in a formal QT setting. I have not had any disease issues since then. The internet purchase of fish, however, as compared to the 1990's when this was not done, has IMHO lead to more need for QT and disease prevention, though there are many possible ways to do this.

Best wishes with your tank and set up!!

 

[Debramb]

what tank are you setting up? (just says 125g) post pics of your progress.
I'll be doing the same in a couple months but personally, plan to wait a few weeks after the live rock to see what develops. the LFS should "rent" aiptasia eating file fish.

Hi there, we’re doing same upgrade, bought 125 and stand used. Our current 100 + 20 gallon sump has 30 yrs + old live rock. The owner of new tank had some nice large pcs dry, plus husband get sick of algae build up and has bunch smaller size, Mellon size that he’s bleached, saw Reef Rock Enhancer on BRS. I want to throw them in the Brute for week or so with Enhancer, it’s supposedly
Has live bacteria for the live rock. We’ve had salter water tanks since the 80’s so DT now has good stuff. We’ve got crushed coral substrate but now we’ve got 5 gallon bucket full of beautiful sand, dispute over this with hubby but I’m going rinse some and add sand to current DT to seed. We always transfer this way without really cycling’ the next up. I’m worried about new dry structures impeding the transfer. We have hippo, sailfin, lY tangs, I’d say fat and about 5-6 yrs old. I want to use some of our water in the new tank, use BRS bacteria and algae from Algea Barn to new tank.
Do you have any thoughts? All advice is welcome, Thanks Dera, Fort Worth, Texas