GFO basically useless in very high phosphate environment?

[BigJohnny]

I use the BRS deluxe reactor with the Cobalt MJ1200 pump. I have their basic reactor for my GAC. No real preference between the two.

Ever had any issues with it clogging? Probably not since you dont run it all the time.

 

[Brew12]

Ever had any issues with it clogging? Probably not since you dont run it all the time.

I don't have any issues with it. I tend to load it up pretty heavy so it doesn't take a lot of flow to make it functional. As it clogs or becomes less effective I just open the valve more to compensate. When I first put it online I ran it for 2 months without changing the GFO, running 24/7, which was a very low maintenance option for me. But, I also was only starting from around 1.4ppm PO4 on a system with 160g's or so.

 

[GoVols]

FWIW:
Have "simmered" Rowaphos for over three years, in it's own reactor.

Started off with only 1/4 cup and re-charge (every two months) to 1/2 cup, to this day.
Flow has a lot to do with it though, and it needs to be in it's own reactor.

Love me some GFO...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

@Randy Holmes-Farley

Let me start off by saying I am personally not a fan of GFO, and I rarely ever use it. Even in small amounts I have had issues where it worked too quickly and stressed corals.

GFO can always be adjusted in amounts and changing frequency where it is useful and appropriate for the need. There's no way that a small enough amount cannot be used to drop phosphate at a rate you want.

Yes, it get used fast at high levels, but to say it is useless is akin to say it is useless to start walking when the distance you have to travel is long. Not useless, just may take a while.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks, yea that's what I getting at with Randy. My problem is I cant find the GFOs capacity anywhere and I figured he would know it. I believe he's done some experiments with it as well.

To your other points I am not even remotely interested in driving my po4 to zero, just restore it to it's normal range of .1 to .2 ppm. Again, I am intentionally using it in a bag over a reactor because its slower. I dont want it to happen quickly.

There is no simple useful measure of capacity since it doesn't work that way.

It will bind more (meaning higher capacity) at higher phosphate concentration than at low phosphate concentration. So unless the measurement was made at the concentration you want to use it, it won't be useful as a tool.

 

[BigJohnny]

GFO can always be adjusted in amounts and changing frequency where it is useful and appropriate for the need. There's no way that a small enough amount cannot be used to drop phosphate at a rate you want.

Yes, it get used fast at high levels, but to say it is useless is akin to say it is useless to start walking when the distance you have to travel is long. Not useless, just may take a while.

Late to the party randy! What do you have a life outside of reef2reef or something? [emoji6]

I said basicslly useless, not useless. like the feeling of needing to walk 500 miles, especially when I know I can drive : )

I've never needed to use it until now so havent experimented with the various amounts and change frequencies. Its working pretty well so far as is I just have to change it every 3 or 4 days (I think, that's what I'm doing anyway).

 

[BigJohnny]

There is no simple useful measure of capacity since it doesn't work that way.

It will bind more (meaning higher capacity) at higher phosphate concentration than at low phosphate concentration. So unless the measurement was made at the concentration you want to use it, it won't be useful as a tool.

Interesting. What about the concept of leaching the phosphate back into the water once its exhausted? Does that happen under normal conditions or would it have to be extreme like if put in RO water?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Late to the party randy! What do you have a life outside of reef2reef or something? [emoji6]

lol

yes, I noted in a recent thread that I started a new job leading the science effort a small biotech company. Takes a lot of time. i can most just get on on weekends.

 

[GoVols]

lol

yes, I noted in a recent thread that I started a new job leading the science effort a small biotech company. Takes a lot of time. i can most just get on on weekends.

Randy,
Congrats on your new job, and thanks for the heads up...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Randy,
Congrats on your new job, and thanks for the heads up...

Thanks. The web site doesn't say much about us, but scroll down and click on Entrega:

http://puretechhealth.com/puretech-pipeline/our-pipeline

 

[GoVols]

Thanks. The web site doesn't say much about us, but scroll down and click on Entrega:

That's hard core, Randy

I can relate a little.

I have pernicious anemia due to b12 deficiency. My stomach has enzymes that adsorb the b12 before it can get in my blood stream.

So, my wife gives me b12 shots.

 

[GoVols]

@BigJohnny

Sorry... ;Sorry for the derail... , but it was nice to see what Randy's been up to.

(lol)
If you feed low phos. frozen foods (LRS "Fish Frenzy") instead of flake:

Wouldn't that make it an low phos. environment?

Also:
An older sand bed can hold in phos. and leach it back out.
Used to replace my bed (slowly) once a year before I went BB.

 

[BigJohnny]

@BigJohnny

Sorry... ;Sorry for the derail... , but it was nice to see what Randy's been up to.

(lol)
If you feed low phos. frozen foods (LRS "Fish Frenzy") instead of flake:

Wouldn't that make it an low phos. environment?

Also:
An older sand bed can hold in phos. and leach it back out.
Used to replace my bed (slowly) once a year before I went BB.

No problem, but I'm good now.

Are you asking me about the feeding thing? I'm confused. I just had a fish die in the rockwork and my phosphate spiked so high gfo would deplete very quickly.

 

[GoVols]

I just had a fish die in the rockwork and my phosphate spiked so high gfo would deplete very quickly.

Sorry for the confusion. I did not read the entire thread... ;Wacky

Glad your all good...

 

[BigJohnny]

Well now everything is much worse. Nitrates have dropped to <4ppm and phosphate is above 1 ppm. Corals look stressed and many are pale or sandpapery. I cant make a dent in phosphate without them paling and since this last time I tried they arent recovering at all as far as I can see. I lengthened my fuge photoperiod significantly when my phosphate was .6ppm and all it has done is lower nitrate.

 

[Gareth elliott]

Well now everything is much worse. Nitrates have dropped to <4ppm and phosphate is above 1 ppm. Corals look stressed and many are pale or sandpapery. I cant make a dent in phosphate without them paling and since this last time I tried they arent recovering at all as far as I can see. I lengthened my fuge photoperiod significantly when my phosphate was .6ppm and all it has done is lower nitrate.

Ever get this sorted?
I recently had a similar issue except i know where the phosphate came from.(doser incorrect use lol)
But using gfo(regular not high capacity) in a reactor. And phosgaurd in the bottom of my filter sock. The phosgaurd was changed every 3 days for a week went from 6.1 ppm phosphate to this .5ppm in about 2 weeks this method.
At .4ppm po4 i stopped using the phosgaurd and added more soft corals that brought me down to .3ppm.

Goal was gfo is slower than phosgaurd so the gfo to help with new po4 and phosgaurd to remove the current excess from the water column. No idea if this actually played out this way or if simply had enough media to remove the available po4 by using both at once:
Po4 measurements came from hanna ulr po4 checker and ati icp testing.

 

[BigJohnny]

Ever get this sorted?
I recently had a similar issue except i know where the phosphate came from.(doser incorrect use lol)
But using gfo(regular not high capacity) in a reactor. And phosgaurd in the bottom of my filter sock. The phosgaurd was changed every 3 days for a week went from 6.1 ppm phosphate to this .5ppm in about 2 weeks this method.
At .4ppm po4 i stopped using the phosgaurd and added more soft corals that brought me down to .3ppm.

Goal was gfo is slower than phosgaurd so the gfo to help with new po4 and phosgaurd to remove the current excess from the water column. No idea if this actually played out this way or if simply had enough media to remove the available po4 by using both at once:
Po4 measurements came from hanna ulr po4 checker and ati icp testing.

Holy smokes you had 6ppm phosphate?! Yikes

I'm still working on it, taking it slow. If I tried using all those phosphate reduction medias at once right now I'd probably crash my tank based upon the way it was responding to small amounts of GFO. I got an ICP test back about two weeks ago and found out my potassium had plummeted to 250ppm which has caused me severe issues on previous tanks, so I think that was the main reason my tank was being so sensitive to the GFO as the corals were already stressed. I also had elevated chromium which I removed with metasorb.

Since then I have corrected the potassium and am doing 15% water changes once a week along with dosing 1ppm nitrate daily and running 1/2 recommended amount high capacity gfo in a reactor for 8 hours every other day. So far the phosphate hasnt moved that much but I'm just taking it slow while my corals recover and then I will likely crank up the reactor time and/or dose some LaCl.

I was recently at 5ppm nitrate 1.5ppm phosphate and now I am at 8ppm nitrate and 1.1ppm phosphate. Since I have started dosing nitrate my skimmate has picked up and my chaeto is growing faster (even though it already grew insanely fast imo). A lot of my corals have started to/or completely recovered.