Gilroy 425g Build Thread (All Apex, all the time)

[Terence]

Oh, here's a peek at the first inhabitants of the tank. One week in and they are loving the giant place all to themselves.

 

[markalan]

I am suspect of any of these titanium heaters now that do not have a separate wire for the thermister. There is nothing wrong with the heaters. Most people probably do not even know this is happening. For me it just means that their heat output, over time, is less.

Hey Terence why do you think it will have less output?

 

[Terence]

It is not a function of output at a moment. That is in fact 300w. However if it shuts itself off erroneously 10 minutes out of every hour then the potential output over time is reduced <= 16.66%. Actual loss of potential is determined by how much heat was called for over that same time.

 

[revhtree]

Great job so far!

 

[Terence]

Found some lights laying around so I figured I would throw them up there for the time being as a temporary solution and to help get life going in the tank.

 

[Terence]

OK, Christmas arrived early for the tank. Skimmer is here.

So, I put a lot of thought into which skimmer to get. There are some top of the line skimmers for sure: Bubble King, NYOS, etc. And most are excellent products. The differences between skimmers are really in three key areas IMO: The design of the skimmer (how it operates), the build quality, and the pump. In the "elite" skimmers there is not much difference when it comes down to it. And there is even a comprehensive scientific study that proves this.

In terms of design, while there are any number of nuanced enhancements to each skimmer line every couple of years (promising revolution), for the most part they all blow bubbles, bubbles rise, gunk falls over the top. I know some of you out there will undoubtedly tell me there is so much more to it than that - but this is my thread, and my opinion

In terms of build quality, there is in my opinion a wide chasm between the elite skimmers and those of budget variety. Elite skimmers just feel nice. Their edges are smooth, like butter. They have heft. They have attention to detail. All things I truly appreciate. Does it make them skim better, maybe here or there in the margins, but for the most part not. That said, I do not plan on going out and caressing my skimmer on a regular basis

Now, the pump. IMO this is where your skimmer decision really should be focused. And for a long time, there was a big divide between the pumps that were used on the elite skimmers and those on the budget models. Times have changed. Brushless DC pumps are the pump of choice these days and now even the budget (value) skimmer brands are on their second or even third generation pumps and drivers. Huge improvements have been made. Only time can tell the longevity of a pump, but in terms of quietness, power output, and frugal power consumption the value skimmers are no longer the wimps on the block.

So, with all of that in mind, it was a value decision for me. Why should I pay double (or more) for something that may likely work just 10% better? I know many of you out there will have your reasons to debate on this - that is what happens with skimmer choice, I get it. But for me, a sub-$700 skimmer with a quality DC pump that uses a new DC motor controller, controllable with the Apex, with a skimmer neck cleaner option, and a built in skimmer cup float switch seemed like the way to go. Comparable "elite" skimmer models go for around $1500 and up.

So, I took all of this into consideration when choosing the skimmer I would use on my tank. With my set up like it is, I can easily change it out if need be. My choice was a Reef Octopus Regal 300-INT. I had a 5000SSS before on my 210 and loved it. This is a step up from that in many ways so I had to give it a try. Rest assured I plan on giving you all my honest assessment on it right here on this thread.

 

[SPotter]

Great choice! I have the 300ext and love it. I'm curious about the control box for it. That looks very different than mine.

 

[Terence]

Great choice! I have the 300ext and love it. I'm curious about the control box for it. That looks very different than mine.

Just last month I was at CIPS (China International Pet Show) and visited the Reef Octopus booth. They have rebranded the company now as OCTO. This new driver box is quite nice. It has the input for the variability (although not yet officially Apex Ready) and the driver uses (from what I can tell) very similar driver electronics to that of the Vectra by EcoTech. The ones I saw there ran smooth and quiet.

I think they are quietly slipping this into the shipped products at this point.

Also, keep an eye out for some pretty sick ready-to-go reef tanks from Octo. They were showing off two "Red Sea Killers" that were very nicely appointed.

 

[jl283467]

What was the price point of that model ?

 

[Terence]

What was the price point of that model ?

Just under $700 out there from various vendors. That includes the float switch for the lid that plugs into the pump controller and auto-kills the skimmer when the cup is full.

 

[jl283467]

Wow that's less then I though

 

[Terence]

ORP is rising nicely. pH is rising as well. Skimmer immediately went to work. Nice thick foam. I need to get it raised up another inch or so. The skimmate from running overnight is light but definitely it is pulling already even with the light bio-load. Tank is clearing up nicely. A shot below from this morning viewing down the 96".

 

[ATB USA]

Great Build

 

[adroc718]

I will likely use these, they are not bad heaters, it is just that most people do not realize this limitation - that due to the duty cycle you really are not going to get the same heat output (over time) that you would with another type. I will have live rock in this sump and be banging around so I did not want to have glass heaters.

Public Service Announcement:
It should be noted here that these titanium heaters I am using DO have their own thermostats. NEVER cut corners and buy the titanium heater element and plugging it into your Apex without its own thermostat. A number of self-described "expert" reefkeepers have done this and the outcome was not pretty. The idea of an Apex in regards to heating and cooling of your tank is REDUNDANCY.

? whats that ya say now??
thats how ive had my tank running for over 4 years.
titanium heater without a thermostat connected to the apex....whats the problem with having it set up like that?

 

[Terence]

titanium heater without a thermostat connected to the apex....whats the problem with having it set up like that?

It will work just fine. Until it doesn't. The whole idea about an Apex and temperature security is redundancy. Placing a heating element in an outlet with no thermostat of its own - and then programming that outlet to turn it off and on based on the tank temp - will work, but it can very easily also nuke your tank.

There a myriad of ways it can happen due to system failure, but the simplest way is that the temp probe can go faulty, be removed (tank maintenance, rerouting cables, etc.), and the tank temp will register 21 degrees and never move. Apex will tell the outlet of the heating element to come on, and two hours later it is time for cioppino.

Also, one could inadvertently turn on the outlet. They could change programming (to set the tank to a new temperature) and set it to 88 instead of 78.

Lots of ways to kill the tank this way.

Same issue on a chiller but that is less likely because not many chillers come without thermostats and it is unlikely for someone to set theirs for 58 degrees or some other ridiculously low number.

 

[SchnitzelReef]

Anxious to see what you think of that reef octopus. I think the design looks very good. The body looks similar to the bubble King supermarin.

 

[DaveMorris]

I like your synopsis of your skimmer decision. So many people seem to bite on the latest and greatest this or that and do not really consider what the skimmer is there for and how does it really do it? I like the way you took the important things into consideration. It sounds like that skimmer will do a great job in your system and you didn't have to spend $1500 to do it. Tank build looks great, by the way.

 

[Terence]

I like your synopsis of your skimmer decision. So many people seem to bite on the latest and greatest this or that and do not really consider what the skimmer is there for and how does it really do it? I like the way you took the important things into consideration. It sounds like that skimmer will do a great job in your system and you didn't have to spend $1500 to do it. Tank build looks great, by the way.

Thanks Dave.

Another 24hrs of skimmate pic. This tank has almost no bioload right now save for decaying of some of the organic matter that was present on the Real Reef rock, the bacteria I added, and then the small amount of food and fish poop that is a result of five chromis in the tank. So, that said, I am pleased that it is even pulling anything at all at this point given the water volume and that low bioload. The skimmer is sitting about 1-2" too low in the sump right now until I can fashion a proper stand out of cut pipe and egg crate or something else. That is why it is skimming wet. I have the gate valve wide open but the pump on full for maximum bubbles.

I also have on order a neck extension as well as the wiper lid for this skimmer so more updates when those are installed.

 

[Terence]

For a couple of days (starting around Thursday last week), I have been seeing these little translucent 1/2" - 3/4" pieces of foreign matter (little curls/tubes of it) sitting on rocks and on the bottom. I could not figure out what it was. There is not a ton of flow in the tank yet as it is only my return pump so they started collecting in a depression of sand in one corner. Finally I had to do something so I connected two of our Neptune Systems WAV on the tank yesterday and let them go to town. Of course there was an immediate snowstorm of this stuff and the tank went a bit cloudy.

After a few hours I noticed most of it was gone, but there were still new fragments appearing. I have not idea for sure what they are, but my guess is that it is some sort of biofilm (bacteria?) that grew on the inside of the pipe, and is now letting go. I don't think it is harmful, but if this is what it is, it is going to take some time to get it all out as there is 80+ feet of return pipe!

Last Thursday I ran a series (8 of them I think) of AquaBus extension cables along the drain and return lines to get it from the sump over and up to the display tank.

Oh, I also made the equipment mounting board for under the tank too. Soon I will be mounting up an EB8, two 1LINK, two VDM, an ALD as well as the power supplies for the LED. I hope it all fits on this one board (~4 sq. ft.).

Pics to come soon on some of the progress.

 

[mattcoug]

Did you happen to use BioSpira or Dr. Tim's One and Only? I've noticed that a mostly translucent, but white, spongy film develops on surfaces with high flow after using these products.