goni unhappy. Lepto and Favia maybe also

[Susan Edwards]

I purchased a nice piece of goniopora 1 week ago. I had it on the sand but the flow was too much--it was bending it all to one side. So I moved it up about 5 inches. Picture is after I moved it up and it extended. Then it stopped and hasn't really extended since. I tried moving it to a different spot, same height on other side of tank. Same. So I put it back on the sand in original spot. Unhappy! What can I do to save this. My no3 is crazy high and po4. I'm working on those. Basically rebooting this tank. I'm setting up my qt (observation) tank today with water changes I've saved and kept a power head in. Not sure if I should just move it to the qt tank once heated and ready. I'll be adding some fresh salt water to the qt tank along with water I saved (so qt tank isn't "brand" new. Also adding in some rock

I also have I think a favia. Had lots of tentacles at first and now doesn't. Same with the lepto. Had at least a few. I've moved the lepto out of the flow a bit up yet shadowed somewhat by rock. The favia is still on sand in high flow. Do they need more light? All of them? I have current orbit marine ic pro. blue 100, white 50-60, green 5, red 10-15

 

[Mastiffsrule]

Bump

 

[Susan Edwards]

goni still not extending. Moved it up a bit today as clearly on sand bed not happy. Po4 dropped today so if I can get it below 2 maybe it will recover. no3 still high.

 

[living_tribunal]

I purchased a nice piece of goniopora 1 week ago. I had it on the sand but the flow was too much--it was bending it all to one side. So I moved it up about 5 inches. Picture is after I moved it up and it extended. Then it stopped and hasn't really extended since. I tried moving it to a different spot, same height on other side of tank. Same. So I put it back on the sand in original spot. Unhappy! What can I do to save this. My no3 is crazy high and po4. I'm working on those. Basically rebooting this tank. I'm setting up my qt (observation) tank today with water changes I've saved and kept a power head in. Not sure if I should just move it to the qt tank once heated and ready. I'll be adding some fresh salt water to the qt tank along with water I saved (so qt tank isn't "brand" new. Also adding in some rock

I also have I think a favia. Had lots of tentacles at first and now doesn't. Same with the lepto. Had at least a few. I've moved the lepto out of the flow a bit up yet shadowed somewhat by rock. The favia is still on sand in high flow. Do they need more light? All of them? I have current orbit marine ic pro. blue 100, white 50-60, green 5, red 10-15

Your lepto looks ok. It’s hard to tell when they’re stressed but you’ll typically see them have their mouths open. The only concern with leptos is to ensure no detritus stays on their tissue. They really do not like fish food or sand to remain on their tissue as they are unable to clean it up. Keep them in medium flow. They tolerate a wide range of lighting. They tend to want a little more light than many lps though. Give him about 100 par with medium flow and he should be good.

The goni- first is this an indo or Australian goni? If indo (strazeki or whatever they’re called), you’re going to want to give it lower/random flow with low to slightly medium par. @Magellan can help you out more here.

If aussi goni, they tolerate a pretty wide range of flow and lighting. Just make sure flow isn’t persistent nor intense. If you want to make sure he’s at least happy and it’s not parameters, keep him in low flow and see if he extends.

Favias will tolerate slightly higher par. Don’t cook them like acros. I’d say 125 max. They tolerate up to medium flow. I keep goniastrea favias in slightly higher flow and par with the bulging micro favias in lower flow and par. That favia almost looks slightly bleached, with your phosphates high, I’d suspect it’s potentially getting too much par. Can’t really tell though from the picture.

Get your nitrates down. High nitrates have been shown to stunt coral growth. Corals can tolerate, potentially grow faster, under very high Phosphate levels however so I don’t believe that’s the issue here.

Do you have other lps that are happy in your tank so we can rule out general parameters/salinity? I’m assuming you have those all at target ranges.

 

[Susan Edwards]

Your lepto looks ok. It’s hard to tell when they’re stressed but you’ll typically see them have their mouths open. The only concern with leptos is to ensure no detritus stays on their tissue. They really do not like fish food or sand to remain on their tissue as they are unable to clean it up. Keep them in medium flow. They tolerate a wide range of lighting. They tend to want a little more light than many lps though. Give him about 100 par with medium flow and he should be good.

The goni- first is this an indo or Australian goni? If indo (strazeki or whatever they’re called), you’re going to want to give it lower/random flow with low to slightly medium par. @Magellan can help you out more here.

If aussi goni, they tolerate a pretty wide range of flow and lighting. Just make sure flow isn’t persistent nor intense. If you want to make sure he’s at least happy and it’s not parameters, keep him in low flow and see if he extends.

Favias will tolerate slightly higher par. Don’t cook them like acros. I’d say 125 max. They tolerate up to medium flow. I keep goniastrea favias in slightly higher flow and par with the bulging micro favias in lower flow and par. That favia almost looks slightly bleached, with your phosphates high, I’d suspect it’s potentially getting too much par. Can’t really tell though from the picture.

Get your nitrates down. High nitrates have been shown to stunt coral growth. Corals can tolerate, potentially grow faster, under very high Phosphate levels however so I don’t believe that’s the issue here.

Do you have other lps that are happy in your tank so we can rule out general parameters/salinity? I’m assuming you have those all at target ranges.

Thanks for the reply. First, I have no idea what type of goni. Just long tentacle. On the sand it was pretty heavy flow so moved it back up. It had done okay in that spot for a day or so then didn't extend. I may have to move it to other side of tank. I've had it 2 weeks

The favia looked like that when I got it I think 2 weeks ago. It had it's feeder tentacles out at night. Haven't seen them lately. Same with the lepto, purchased same time. I was seeing some feeders, not a lot but now, none. He's in a shaded area, so maybe he needs up a bit, or out in the open.

I got a duncan same time and its happy as a clam.

I had some leather toadstools. Coming back from tank neglect. All the mushrooms and rhodactis and zoas and ricordia are doing good. I had a tank disaster a year ago that wiped out most other corals and half my fish (mentioned on my build).

I did realize that my po4 spike might be because I did put in 3 new rocks to raise my toadstool up. I think these were old live rock that I saved, although they turned white again.

Everything else is coming up to where they should be. calcium is still a bit low
Po4 2.7 (down from 4-5)
Ca 340-360
alk 8-9
mg 1200-1350

I

 

[living_tribunal]

Thanks for the reply. First, I have no idea what type of goni. Just long tentacle. On the sand it was pretty heavy flow so moved it back up. It had done okay in that spot for a day or so then didn't extend. I may have to move it to other side of tank. I've had it 2 weeks

The favia looked like that when I got it I think 2 weeks ago. It had it's feeder tentacles out at night. Haven't seen them lately. Same with the lepto, purchased same time. I was seeing some feeders, not a lot but now, none. He's in a shaded area, so maybe he needs up a bit, or out in the open.

I got a duncan same time and its happy as a clam.

I had some leather toadstools. Coming back from tank neglect. All the mushrooms and rhodactis and zoas and ricordia are doing good. I had a tank disaster a year ago that wiped out most other corals and half my fish (mentioned on my build).

I did realize that my po4 spike might be because I did put in 3 new rocks to raise my toadstool up. I think these were old live rock that I saved, although they turned white again.

Everything else is coming up to where they should be. calcium is still a bit low
Po4 2.7 (down from 4-5)
Ca 340-360
alk 8-9
mg 1200-1350

I

Phosphates of 2.7 is very high. While corals tolerate significantly higher phosphate than they do high nitrate, that level is still a bit extreme. I would do some heavy water changes to bring it down. It might be tough if the new rock you added is leaching heavily. I hate GFO but this would be a good candidate for it.

Regardless, I don't believe that's the issue here.

A few things. Gonis take a while to settle. If it's in mild flow and the par isn't cooking it, give it a week and see what happens. Once they're happy, they tend to stay that way.

Don't worry about leptos showing their feeders. Leptos grow real fast in my system and I rarely ever see their feeders. Maybe once a month even I'll catch one of it's tiny feeders. They don't require much to be happy. Just keep stuff off of their tissue, and it's hard to go wrong. I would definitely put it in direct light, they prefer a little higher par than other lps, especially the fleshier lps. I have success with mine in lower par (60ish) up to mid-higher (150ish). Definitely put it in light. They will be one of your faster growing corals once happy and getting good light.

For the favia, they are very hungry corals and do typically have their feeders out the majority of the day. It's not necessarily bad if they have theirs retracted more often than not but it is a good sign when they have them out. I'd first focus on ensuring it stays puffy. Does he still look stressed like he did in that original picture? Where is he in the tank and what kind of light is he getting? Have you tried target feeding it? Most all of my favias can compete with my big brains in terms of food consumption. I had this tiny little micro and poured 20 1mm pellets on him, he ate ALL of them. I started overfeeding him a few times a week and he split 4 new heads in a month. He's tripled in size over the last 3 months that I've had him. They are literally always hungry and I've never had them reject food.

Non goniastrea favias still don't take much so I'd look more towards is there something wrong with my water if he's in just mild flow and par.

 

[Susan Edwards]

I noticed last few days the goni had some movement on top--not full out extended--but some peeping out but none on sides. And thought maybe it needed more light so I moved it up and have tentackles sticking out all over. Not fully extended but better than the last 2 weeks or so.

My lights--marine orbit ic pro are at
blue 100
white 40
red 40
green 7

Should I increase the whites to 50?

?

 

[acesfull44]

First, is it really fair to try and assume your goni is not reacting to placement/lighting/flow etc within 2 weeks (Time from purchase at OG post to today)? Why was the flow too much?

My ORA Red Goni is on my sand bed, and takes a TON of flow (its roughly the size of a size 4 soccer ball) and my other 2 frags I have gotten within the last month are both in the middle of my tank in direct flow and have full extension already happy.

I feel like the only reason I is from stable water parameters and not moving them at all. My Phos are .08-.10, nitrates are around 10, calcium is 440 and Alk ranges between 8.4 - 8.9.

While I am no expert, get the phos down and your cal up and get it in a place and leave it for a while and see what happens. Water changes might be the easiest thing to do immediately.

 

[Susan Edwards]

on bottom, the flow was all one direction and the goni was almost laying flat so after a couple days I moved it up a few inches. After a day it stopped opening. Changed lighting a bit. noticed just top opening a bit so figured it might need more light. Where it is now is the best its looked since the first couple days .

I'm working on no3 and po4 and ca. I was afraid if I just left it without trying something to make it a bit more happy it would just die.

 

[living_tribunal]

I noticed last few days the goni had some movement on top--not full out extended--but some peeping out but none on sides. And thought maybe it needed more light so I moved it up and have tentackles sticking out all over. Not fully extended but better than the last 2 weeks or so.

My lights--marine orbit ic pro are at
blue 100
white 40
red 40
green 7

Should I increase the whites to 50?

?

Why do you have your reds up so high? I doubt that’s the issue but 40 for reds seems really extreme. Were you able to determine if this was an Aussie or indo goni?

Also, how is the favia and the other corals?

Thinking about it logically, if multiple corals are skiddish and stressed, I would diagnose the water. If it’s just the goni, then I would assess its location (light and flow).

Lastly, did you do a wc for the super higher nutrient levels? I’ve never heard of someone having 2.7 phosphate ever. That’s reallllllllly high.

 

[Susan Edwards]

Why do you have your reds up so high? I doubt that’s the issue but 40 for reds seems really extreme. Were you able to determine if this was an Aussie or indo goni?

Also, how is the favia and the other corals?

Thinking about it logically, if multiple corals are skiddish and stressed, I would diagnose the water. If it’s just the goni, then I would assess its location (light and flow).

Lastly, did you do a wc for the super higher nutrient levels? I’ve never heard of someone having 2.7 phosphate ever. That’s reallllllllly high.

I did not figure out what type of goni. On another thread, some with these lights had their reds up high so I tried it. I can turn them down. Some with these lights do good, others say no but they are what I have. doing some light research, others suggested that to get the par the manufactor claims, everything should be 100 %. I have the bracket on the highest notch as if they are lower, hard to get into tank. Been debating taking them down 1 notch, or 2. Don't have them on stands on the tank as I worry my cats would jump on top and knock them in. Also debating adding a third light.

Hard to tell about the lepto or favia. They seem okay. I don't see feeding tentacles as I used to though. The duncan which I got at same time is doing fantastic. All my mushrooms, rhodactis, giant hairy (also new), ricordias (recovering now that I'm dealing with the tank better) and palys and zoas seem good. And the leathers are recovering from tank neglect.

I've done 2 water changes and hope to get one tomorrow. Po4 was over 4. I'm wondering if it's this new batch of hanna powder. But I also did add 3 more rocks to the tank a month ago or so and that might have swung it. Started vodka dosing to see if that helps as nothing else added is working

 

[living_tribunal]

I did not figure out what type of goni. On another thread, some with these lights had their reds up high so I tried it. I can turn them down. Some with these lights do good, others say no but they are what I have. doing some light research, others suggested that to get the par the manufactor claims, everything should be 100 %. I have the bracket on the highest notch as if they are lower, hard to get into tank. Been debating taking them down 1 notch, or 2. Don't have them on stands on the tank as I worry my cats would jump on top and knock them in. Also debating adding a third light.

Hard to tell about the lepto or favia. They seem okay. I don't see feeding tentacles as I used to though. The duncan which I got at same time is doing fantastic. All my mushrooms, rhodactis, giant hairy (also new), ricordias (recovering now that I'm dealing with the tank better) and palys and zoas seem good. And the leathers are recovering from tank neglect.

I've done 2 water changes and hope to get one tomorrow. Po4 was over 4. I'm wondering if it's this new batch of hanna powder. But I also did add 3 more rocks to the tank a month ago or so and that might have swung it. Started vodka dosing to see if that helps as nothing else added is working

If you're only keeping lps for the most part then you really don't need par any higher than 150 at the top and 50-75ish at the bottom depending on what you keep.

To put things into context, I have an all lps tank (excluding a few montis) and I keep my two hydra 26s at 50% rb & b, 15% uv, 10 % v, and 10% white. I've found this to be the sweet spot for everything in my tank under normal conditions (currently reviving a wilsoni I traded my sump for that was completely bleached so my lights are at 30% right now and everything is still very happy).

If it's an indo goni, it's going to like lower par. Somewhere around 75 max 100. The key with them is moderate flow max and my friend swears by consistent feeding. If it's an aussi goni, they will tolerate a wide range of settings.

How is your p04 over 4? That's like dumping a whole bottle of neophos in the tank! Are you using the hanna phosphate kit?

Carbon dosing (vodka) will primarily decrease your nitrates and not phosphates. With phosphate that high, you really should do like a 50% wc with salt whose alk level is around that of your tank to avoid a spike.

Leptos arevery difficult to determine if they are happy or not. If their mouths are always open then it's stressed but if it's mouths are closed then he's happy. Did you move it to higher par after we last touched base? Also, you'll almost neversee feeders from a lepto, I wouldn't worry about those.

The favia on the other hand should always be hungry. As long as it's not contracted, I wouldn't worry about it.

Considering the other corals seem happy, I suspect you have an indo goni on your hands which are kind of tough.

My buddy @Magellan should be able to help you if he ever stops being lazy. He has a strazeka (can never remember what they're called) goni and he took several months honing in on their care requirements.Even if it is an aussie, they take a week or two to settle in before they are real happy. Got to be patient with them.

I got this little aussie guy about 2-3 months ago. He only had little 1" polyps, only like 5 polyps at the time. He didn't really start to open until the two week mark. I now have him in higher par and moderate flow and he's one of my fastest growing corals. He doesn't even close really at night even and I haven't seen him completely shut down except for once.

It looks like your colony is huge so may require even more time. Test different locations but as @acesfull44 mentioned, move them slowly giving them time to adjust to the area.

 

[Magellan]

I’m sorry, I must have missed the original tag.

it barely needs any light at all, these corals grow in murky Indonesian water. They can thrive under a variety of flow conditions, but gentle randomness is where I’ve gotten the most extension. I’m assuming you aren’t feeding it, which needs to start happening immediately if you want it to recover. They need STABILITY and consistent feedings to survive long term. I think the one you have may be bleached out a good bit as well, but it’s possible for it to recover. I have a Stokesi, I think you do as well. (And a HUGE colony!).
Get it in the lowest possible par and gentle flow. (It sounds like you may need to adjust a powerhead in order to keep it on the bottom). I’ve got mine slightly elevated to get it off the sand and allow water to flow underneath the skeleton. Get your parameters stable and keep them there, and FEED this thing. If you target feed, gently float food it’s way, otherwise it will close up as a defense mechanism rather than accept the food. I broadcast phyto feast and oyster feast every day, in addition to occasional reef roids as well. I think the phyto feast may be most important, in the wild they consistently feed on phyto, but meatier foods are important as well (I will also target feed mysis every few days).



^^My Goni after 9 months, for placement and flow reference


I vote +1 for an extensive water change routine, you need to get your phosphates and nitrates under control ASAP. That will also help get your calcium back up. Just be very careful to not have any sharp alk swings when you change your water, @living_tribunal has given some great advice there. Long term, Phosguard may be helpful, (it works for me) as you will need to feed the tank quite often.

one last note: they like to be in a bit warmer water, 79 seems to be a great number for my tank.

 

[Susan Edwards]

thanks @living_tribunal I'm not sure the par. My meter reads from outside and never seemed to read well. I'll test again. Lights are approx 5-6" above water. My lights (orbit marine) only have w, b, g, r. I'll see if it seems like it's coming out more tomorrow when lights come back on. And turn red down? I'm wishing I'd gone better lights with more options.

<<How is your p04 over 4? That's like dumping a whole bottle of neophos in the tank! Are you using the hanna phosphate kit?>> I have no idea. I've never had over 2. Ever! I'm using the hanna. Last time I cked, 2 days ago, it was back at 3. I'm stumped. My no3 is high so that is why the vodka. My tanks always run high. Like red high...

@Magellan I had the goni in a lower flow and only the top was peeping out. I moved it up, and it was peeping out all over. I'll see if it is still doing tomorrow. I may have to turn down some of the powerheads. Where I had it on bottom was very high flow. I look at the hair algae to see what the flow is....

I've been attempting to feed. I have several different powders and phyto and marine snow. I also use selcon and rotate another vitamin for the fish and occassional garlic in the food, esp. if I have new fish.

I use a bottle or turkey baster and gently squeeze food just above it to float over it. Today is the first day since the first couple days that it's had anything out to feed but I feed the tank various coral foods and phyto daily

I have phosguard, boyd's blue, boyd's elite, and various other media in the sump. My sump is full of media! I just got some rowaphos.

Water is between 77 and 78 so I'll adjust a bit. In the summer I have to lower it, just to keep it under 80 as I live in a hot area

I noticed my chaeto has melted so that isn't helping the nitrates...

Much of my woes come from a tank crash a year ago due to noxious primer that wiped out 50% of my livestock overnight , and neglect due to life after that. Will do another water change this weekend. The last page or 2 of my build thread give insight there.

I appreciate all the help!!

 

[living_tribunal]

thanks @living_tribunal I'm not sure the par. My meter reads from outside and never seemed to read well. I'll test again. Lights are approx 5-6" above water. My lights (orbit marine) only have w, b, g, r. I'll see if it seems like it's coming out more tomorrow when lights come back on. And turn red down? I'm wishing I'd gone better lights with more options.

<<How is your p04 over 4? That's like dumping a whole bottle of neophos in the tank! Are you using the hanna phosphate kit?>> I have no idea. I've never had over 2. Ever! I'm using the hanna. Last time I cked, 2 days ago, it was back at 3. I'm stumped. My no3 is high so that is why the vodka. My tanks always run high. Like red high...

@Magellan I had the goni in a lower flow and only the top was peeping out. I moved it up, and it was peeping out all over. I'll see if it is still doing tomorrow. I may have to turn down some of the powerheads. Where I had it on bottom was very high flow. I look at the hair algae to see what the flow is....

I've been attempting to feed. I have several different powders and phyto and marine snow. I also use selcon and rotate another vitamin for the fish and occassional garlic in the food, esp. if I have new fish.

I use a bottle or turkey baster and gently squeeze food just above it to float over it. Today is the first day since the first couple days that it's had anything out to feed but I feed the tank various coral foods and phyto daily

I have phosguard, boyd's blue, boyd's elite, and various other media in the sump. My sump is full of media! I just got some rowaphos.

Water is between 77 and 78 so I'll adjust a bit. In the summer I have to lower it, just to keep it under 80 as I live in a hot area

I noticed my chaeto has melted so that isn't helping the nitrates...

Much of my woes come from a tank crash a year ago due to noxious primer that wiped out 50% of my livestock overnight , and neglect due to life after that. Will do another water change this weekend. The last page or 2 of my build thread give insight there.

I appreciate all the help!!

That was a lot of helpful information in there, good follow up.

Are you using the hanna phosphate checker or the hanna phosphorous ulr checker?

The reason I ask is most people consider even .1-.2 high phosphates, you’re at 10-20x those levels... What would make sense is that you’re reading the value from a hanna phosphorous ulr checker and not a hanna phosphate checker. The phosphorous checker, while more accurate, has a stupid marketing tactic which you need to convert to phosphate after you receive your result.

You probably already know this and I apologize if you do.

Secondly, the melting chaeto is likely adding a lot of nutrients to the tank depending on how big the ball was. All of the nitrate and phosphate your chaeto absorbed in its life is now being added back into the tank.

I would do one of two things, remove the chaeto entirely or add iron to help it grow. Chaeto melting is a sign of very very low nutrients, not super high nutrients like you have. There is the off chance that your tank is out of iron though so a supplement like chaeto grow from brightwell will help you.


Lastly, this is just a personal preference but I don’t like adding too much to my tank. I feel like the more you add, the more room for error and unknowns you may face.

I am able to handle all of my nutrient export and growing needs only using vinegar dosing, amino acid feeding, phyto feeding, and a ball of chaeto. I only add those three things to the tank daily.


I’m kind of interested now to see what’s going on so definitely follow up!

 

[Susan Edwards]

Okay, the goni is recovering nicely. I moved it up--all the way up--and have been slowly upping the white lights. Now at 65. Because the top was recovering when it was half way but not the sides, I thought it wanted more light and that seems to be the case. Some of the polyps are fully extended, with longer feeding tentacles and the whole coral has wavy movement in the flow which is set to surge. It seems happy where it is. In fact looking at the pics which show more detail, I can see most polyps are extended away from the coral.

This might mean my lights are not sufficient. For reason of getting into tank, I don't want to lower the 3-4 inches that is available, and for same reason, plus cats possible jumping up, I don't want to put them on the tank with the feet. So I may have to change my lighting in order to do some corals. Softies are fine.

Calcium is up to normal. Ordered new hanna regent. We'll see if this last batch is defective or if my tank is really that high.