GOVERMENT SHoT DOWN

[CoryC]

the one where a bloated military industrial complex is bankrupting our nation, do you know remember the trillions we spent on war for the last decade? what country do you live in?

 

[CoryC]

it's a shame that we can spend all this money dropping bombs and policing the world but we cant provide health care for our citizens? that we have such a broken mental health care system that people who have mental illnesses can't get help and turn to violence and firearms. fixing our health care system would fix so much more, you just fail to grasp it.

 

[shred5]

Don't get your panties in a twist. Just making the point that other countries already have those programs, if those programs are what someone is looking for maybe they should go live there for a while, just saying.

No you were telling someone if they dont like it leave the country. Which is a personal attack.

 

[Neon Reef]

No you were telling someone if they dont like it leave the country. Which is a personal attack.

in that case, please dont play favorites. Read post #79 and make the same statement to that person. Thanks

 

[CoryC]

there were no personal attacks, just a response to a common assertion by tea party members like michelle bachmann and sarah palin, that this is a christian country and we should have christian laws. no, that is a a theocracy, we elect representatives to vote on and enact laws that we must then follow. don't like the laws? write your congressman. the ACA is not perfect, but it makes inroads, so stop stalling the change our health care system so desperately needs, this is a stepping stone in the right direction. dont want to buy health insurance, then pay the 100 dollar fine and be on your way, i guarantee it will cost you more than that in a year if you have any dr. or hospital visits.

 

[GHill762]

the one where a bloated military industrial complex is bankrupting our nation, do you know remember the trillions we spent on war for the last decade? what country do you live in?

And your guy is putting us in more war. I'm not pro war at all, so I agree with you. We need to be able to protect ourselves but we should not be world police. We are only getting in deeper though.

And if we're talking debt, there's been more under your guy than most part presidents combined..

 

[GHill762]

it's a shame that we can spend all this money dropping bombs and policing the world but we cant provide health care for our citizens? that we have such a broken mental health care system that people who have mental illnesses can't get help and turn to violence and firearms. fixing our health care system would fix so much more, you just fail to grasp it.

I do fail to grasp how Obama Care benefits the US in any way. Must be above my head.. Wish I was thooper thmart like you..

 

[shred5]

in that case, please dont play favorites. Read post #79 and make the same statement to that person. Thanks

Too bad people dont know how to debate and have to cross the lines. This is the reason no one can come together.

For most it becomes a political issue and is something most dont know anything about . Either they are for it or against it based on their political affiliation and propaganda which is wrong.

 

[CoryC]

A short list of some of the benefits

• New Health Insurance Marketplaces (AKA Exchanges) allow shoppers to compare Health Plans that include all new benefits, rights and protections.
• Cost assistance to individuals, families and small businesses through the marketplace.
• No annual or lifetime limits on healthcare.
• Insurance companies can't drop you when you are sick or for making a mistake on your application.
• You can't be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions.
• You have the right to quickly appeal any health insurance company decision.
• A large improvement to women's health services.
• Reforms to the healthcare industry to cut wasteful spending.
• Better care and protections for seniors.
• New preventative Services at no-out-of pocket costs.
• You can't be charged more based on health status or gender.
• Plus many more benefits, rights and protections.

But you cant find one thing that would benefit us at all!

Also according to factcheck.org obama's spending increases have been moderate at best.​

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/obamas-spending-inferno-or-not/

 

[CoryC]

So i think it's been pretty clear, when i provide facts, you provide empty inflammatory rhetoric that adds nothing to the proceedings.

 

[rworegon]

So Cory, How many people do you suppose could get health care for the price of just one of the many Obama family vacations? Or even one of his golf outings with Tiger Woods? Or the price of sending his daughter to Mexico for spring break with 30 of her closest friends? All on the taxpayers dime I might add. How about we have Obama, and all the other Washington insiders start paying their own way, just like the rest of us? I would love it if I could go to Hawaii on vacation and bill the government while pocketing my entire paycheck.

 

[Paul B]

so you dont like having the government tell you that you have to pay taxes?

The constitution explicitly "allows" the Government to collect taxes and support the military. It is right at the beginning of it. Then it goes on to say that there are three branches of the Government and what they are required to do including waging foreign wars. It also mentions Indian wars but that is for another thread. It allows the Government to have a bloated military as it does not specifically rule against it. I have no problem with those things as they are Constitutional, but that's about as far as the Constitution goes in regard to spending our money. Everything else including educating our children and allowing women to vote came about later with amendments to the Constitution. It was not however amended to allow the Government to spend our money on insurance or fine us if we don't buy it. Social Security is also our money and not the Governments. It is an inalienable right that the Government is not allowed to touch. But now part of My, and your Social Security will go to pay for Obamacare which is also unconstitutional. I worked about fifty years and every week put money into Social Security. I did not do that to pay for someone else's insurance. Every time we give in to one of these Government programs, we give up some of our rights that a heck of a lot Americans died for. If Obamacare works well, I guess it will be with us for a while. If it crashes, it, along with it's founders will also be gone and we will have to try something else, hopefully something the majority of the American people can live with. This is from section 8 of the Constitution :
The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;
To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;
To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;
To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;
To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;
To establish Post Offices and post Roads;
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;
To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;
To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;
To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
To provide and maintain a Navy;
To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

 

[Dave3112]

I've gone on the healthcare.gov site. I put in my information and my premiums go UP by $50/month. Not that bad. But that's AFTER a subsidy. That's paid for by taxpayers, not myself. But the kicker for me was that my max out of pocket expenses go from $1200/year for my family and I (now) to $20,000/year for my family!!! That is outrageous!! I will not participate. Period. Neither will anyone in my family. Affordable my butt.

 

[Dave3112]

Germany has the best model , France has a good one but faces rising costs, England's is still better than ours as well as a menagerie of other european health care systems that are better than ours. Any business journal or medical journal will tell you this. it's an easy search on the internet. canada's health care system may have it's faults but it's STILL better than ours. People don't face "extremely" long waits for procedures, nor do they die waiting on treatment. that happens in america buddy. what makes you think our health care system is good? because you or your family works for a company that profits from arbitrarily high costs? we do not live in a pure example of a captialist society just like no pure examples of socialism exist. we take bits and pieces and form our own union. we've had social programs for OVER A CENTURY. they work fine. the social safety net is not bankrupting our country. crying about people cheating on food stamps while exxon mobil takes 8000 of your tax dollars is just sad and unfortunate.

Germany is the best model? Really? Do you know where the rich people in Germany go to get healthcare? I do. I have friends who have family there. They come to the United States to get their health care because theirs, although good, is rationed. You only get so many x-rays or lab tests per month or quarter. Even in emergency situations. Do you know what their unemployment rate is there? How many people are on welfare? Why would we want a system like theirs? Why would I want a country like theirs? I Don't!! I'm an American. Not German. Nor French.

 

[GHill762]

A short list of some of the benefits

• New Health Insurance Marketplaces (AKA Exchanges) allow shoppers to compare Health Plans that include all new benefits, rights and protections.
• Cost assistance to individuals, families and small businesses through the marketplace.
• No annual or lifetime limits on healthcare.
• Insurance companies can't drop you when you are sick or for making a mistake on your application.
• You can't be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions.
• You have the right to quickly appeal any health insurance company decision.
• A large improvement to women's health services.
• Reforms to the healthcare industry to cut wasteful spending.
• Better care and protections for seniors.
• New preventative Services at no-out-of pocket costs.
• You can't be charged more based on health status or gender.
• Plus many more benefits, rights and protections.

But you cant find one thing that would benefit us at all!

Also according to factcheck.org obama's spending increases have been moderate at best.​

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/06/obamas-spending-inferno-or-not/

I meant the big picture, you can pick out little bits that are better than current setup. I should have worded that a little better.

and the pre-existing thing is bs. if you wreck your car today and insure it tomorrow, should your insurance pay? no. how is health insurance any different?

not being charged more based on health or gender? that's good? so, if one customer is going to cost you more, why shouldn't you be allowed to charge them more? that's how car insurance works.

wasteful spending is mostly done with medicare/medicaid. oooh.. lets go to the ER for a runny nose, we have medicaid it's okay.. there was a million dollar wheelchair at a small drug store (legit story), the same wheel chair had been sold thousands of times, but was never actually sold.

cost assistance? you mean letting someone else pay for it, like letting me help pay for joe schmo's insurance.. I'd call that theft.

improvement to womens health? you must mean paying for contraceptives, abortions, day after pills, etc. not all women would consider that an improvement. and not everyone would consider that morally right, or even the responsibility of the insurer.

point is, overall, I personally don't believe this bill is good for the nation.

 

[GHill762]

Germany is the best model? Really? Do you know where the rich people in Germany go to get healthcare? I do. I have friends who have family there. They come to the United States to get their health care because theirs, although good, is rationed. You only get so many x-rays or lab tests per month or quarter. Even in emergency situations. Do you know what their unemployment rate is there? How many people are on welfare? Why would we want a system like theirs? Why would I want a country like theirs? I Don't!! I'm an American. Not German. Nor French.

well said.

I have heard they have good health care, I don't know anything about access to healthcare or how the system is run, only that the actual medical part of their healthcare is very good.

 

[GHill762]

another thing you'll be able to thank obamacare for is the rise in part-time workers and the decline in full time, at least in unskilled labor. heck, look at what home depot just announced a few days ago..

yeah, obamacare is doing great!

 

[schminksbro]

Well I know Obama doesn't have my best interest in mind. When ash the government every taking over anything and made it run better?

The Pony Express, The Telegraph, Transcontinental Railroad, National Hwy System, Hoover Dam...Our Military pretty much kicks butt. Fire Depts are better than bucket brigades. Police are better than lynch mobs and laws seem to work better than lawlessness. Clean drinking water is cool. Public universities do a lot of good. NASA does cool stuff and used to do more. Air space traffic control is good. Effective and responsible governing is much better than anarchy. Unfortunately we are not getting that because special interests fund campaigns and corporate media controls the message. We have people elected to watch over the country who I wouldn't trust to watch my dog for a weekend. It's a shame.

 

[Paul B]

Did you ever have to call Medicaid or Medicare for an older person? I have to deal with them all the time for my wife's Mother, it is a nightmare and that is if you can even get through. I called the Veterans Administration last week and after waiting on hold for 20 minutes a recording came on to say there was no one there to answer the phone

 

[russo36]

I believe more in the cartels and the mafia than government and politics... They don't cover their bad acts with paperwork and edited If they want something they take it.... If you are not willing to give it then they kill you! But at least u know what to spect!!! Every president starts the same way.... Promising this and that but congress won't approve it!!! So what's the point of having a president?? Let congress run the country!!! Better yet we should run the country! ... Let our hard earn money go towards things we need and not to some bums in section A housing with better health than most of us! Or to women that live of the gov by having kids... I'm sorry they need to get their ​edited to work!!! The hell w all this free crap!! That's why we are in ​edited!!! On and one more thing!! Stop helping others when disasters hit!!! No other countries come here when we get hammer! Let them solve their own problems!!