Grafting: Make your own rainbow chalice? Acro? Pics are Proof.

[rajkovich207]

*stop hacking the poor things up and show me one and we can talk about pricing. The thought of color injections makes me sick... on the other hand grafting has interested me for a very long time, back when I use to keep alot of plants, and ever since I found out you could do it with corals I planned on attempting it with a couple montis. I say we keep the pics and discussion flowing. Love this stuff lol.
PS I appologize for any Cranmer mistakes, I'm on my phone and auto correct kills me some times lol. Also I'm sorry if my rant has offended anyone! I love this place! Never log off lol

 

[rajkovich207]

*case in point, that's grammar not Cranmer. Dont even know if that's a word, let alone what it means lol

 

[LBA]

If you knew what they actually went through to get those rainbow chalices into the states, you would understand their pricing!

 

[franklypre]

please tell us what they go through, I'd love to know why they are that expensive. I have a feeling anything that will build value will help, I personally feel it's just artificially inflated because it's "new". I remember the CITR red dragon going for 250 and inch, now I'd be lucky to get 75. I understand if it costs more somehow but how much do you think the diver in Fiji is really making, maybe a few hundred a month.

 

[LBA]

please tell us what they go through, I'd love to know why they are that expensive. I have a feeling anything that will build value will help, I personally feel it's just artificially inflated because it's "new". I remember the CITR red dragon going for 250 and inch, now I'd be lucky to get 75. I understand if it costs more somehow but how much do you think the diver in Fiji is really making, maybe a few hundred a month.

I do not feel that it's my place to really speak openly about how suppliers obtain their corals. However, I can say with confidence that there are material factors that build value into these types of corals, aside from the supply and demand/hype. I apologize for my lack of factual data, I just feel that often times hobbyists theory-craft these ideas that vendors are out to get you! and that it should be addressed.

 

[k2parkstar]

please tell us what they go through, I'd love to know why they are that expensive. I have a feeling anything that will build value will help, I personally feel it's just artificially inflated because it's "new". I remember the CITR red dragon going for 250 and inch, now I'd be lucky to get 75. I understand if it costs more somehow but how much do you think the diver in Fiji is really making, maybe a few hundred a month.

Collection cost money...boat, gas, divers
Wholesaler purchases from collectors
Shipping...they ship more than one coral at a time in a box so lets say a box that is 15x15x15 and weighs 20lbs. Shipping from the South Pacific to the USA over night $350-$400.
Customs clearance. $100
Cites permit that allows you to import wild coral and fish $165
Tax and or duties on the coral. Probably 3-5% of the retail value of the product.

That's just to get it to the wholesaler in the usa. Then they markup and sell to the vendors the sell to us. Wholesalers know what hobbiest are after they markup rainbow pieces to the vendors. Additionally wholesalers make theses vendors place minimum orders typically no less than $1000 at a time sometimes more. Then the vendor has to markup to recover the cost and turn a profit, which is the whole reasoning of being in business.

 

[franklypre]

My point is the same coral colonies we are paying 75-125 bucks got here via the same method as the ones we are paying 1000 bucks an eye, so the only reason I see a difference in cost is supply and demand. I personally feel we should be easily able to know where and how we get our coral, I just don't see the reason for it to be a secret. I have plans to attempt this I simply haven't taken the time to locate more chalice. I understand everyone has to make a profit but that profit shouldn't be artificially inflated, kinda like everywhere has the MP10es for 235, no discounts no sales. I see frags likely from the same mother listed as different names with different prices regularly, it makes it confusing and exhausting for the newer reefers to understand IMO.

 

[robsreefs]

The is someone on here right now selling purple death palys and nuke greens that seems to be naturally grafted 125$ a pop maybe we can get them to join in as far as how this came upon looks really cool purple with bright green streaks in it

Sent from my LG-P999 using Reef2Reef Aquarium Forum mobile app

 

[franklypre]

That would be great, info on how to do it rather than pricing wars. This thread needs pics, bad.

 

[scooterc268]

kinda like everywhere has the MP10es for 235, no discounts no sales. I see frags likely from the same mother listed as different names with different prices regularly, it makes it confusing and exhausting for the newer reefers to understand IMO.

That's the manufactures price mark and vendors can not sell (low ball) below the prices or they will pull that vendor's ability to sell their product. But as far as the coral goes, I wouldn't want to release a crazy color anything. I want the supply low and the demand high to make my biggest profit. Same reason your high end cars (not BMW, think Italian) are not massed produced like the average day vehicle you see on the road.

When you buy corals, look around before jumping on one set coral and on named corals. Remember, you will pay more for rare. I betcha a bunch of long time reefers can remember eagle eye Zoas being rare and costing more than what they sell for now.




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[e.litvin]

IMO, the corals that you pay $1000 an eye for are some of the rarest organisms on the planet. Of course as people frag them and they are easier to come by the price drops. Some chalices for instants are found between 200'-400'. Unless you live on a tropical island in the middle of the Pacific your not going to go in your back yard and find a gem like a rainbow crush chalice for example. I would see it as a privilege to own something so rare that maybe less than 25 people in the WHOLE WORLD have a similar piece. If those $1000 an eye piece sold for $25 an eye everyone would have them and there would be less hype around the organism. There is also many beautiful corals you can still get at a great price and make an outstanding reef aquarium with. I just feel that if you take a step back to think about how rare and uncommon some of these high dollar pieces are you can better appreciate there value.

 

[franklypre]

Guys this stuff is likely maricultured, there is a good chance it's just a bunch of different chalices chopped up and glued together and left in the ocean for a year or so. Do you really think any coral you put in your tank is from 200 feet below sea level. FYI the water gets very cold. Please if you don't know don't create hype.

 

[e.litvin]

There are many cold water corals, some have been found as deep as 1000m. Dendros fit this 1000m description and are quite common in the reef aquarium as well as the sun coral, to name a few. That is beside the point, if mariculture wholesalers had a bunch of rainbow chalice laying around they wouldn't charge businesses a crazy amount for them, they'd be the same price as all the other corals they are growing.

 

[franklypre]

would they now, diamonds all cost the same amount to dig up and cut but they cost wildly different amounts. Your thinking is correct but in the real world manufacturing cost doesn't always determine final price.

 

[e.litvin]

Diamonds are sold based on there grade. Many things are taken into account such as clarity, reflection, size, size of the table, depth, color, etc. Dug up the same way yes, same exact stones, not exactly. I do understand where you are coming from, prices for coral can get extremely price, but just like other things in life prices are going to vary based on who you buy from. In the end though it is pieces like the rainbow chalice that benefit the hobby and attract people into the hobby. By the time they see the price tag there probably already in too deep and that is where the addiction begins lol :smile:

 

[franklypre]

Diamonds are abundant, they are expensive because one company has most of the worlds mines, that is no secret. Most people getting into the hobby buy softies, zoas, and LPS. We know where most of these come from, however the prize chalices seem to be a mystery to everybody. Are they a natural deal that just happened to show up after all this time or are they grafted/spliced, genetically engineered, what? I don't know the truth and that has been my question throughout this whole thread. If somebody put years into creating these masterpieces slowly adding new morphs then I would understand paying big bucks, if they were plucked from the ocean and chopped up I would understand that as well, not that I would like it as much honestly.

 

[nitrox36]

This is IMO one of the many cool things about reefing. There is sooo much stuff out there that is so rare. Just thing 30 years ago this stuff would not be avail. to enjoy, it makes me grin when isee coral like those rare peices. because one day we will all have a piece of that!

 

[franklypre]

Well I made the leap and glued a piece of my watermelon next to my gold chalice, I'll get some pics soon and try to keep it updated as they grow together(hopefully). On a side note I was able to get a piece of rainbow chalice from UC, pics of that will come as well.

 

[franklypre]

 

[akabryanhall]

Couple of thoughts.
I would think cut to cut gluing would be the only way to achieve gooeyness. Millions of chalices must have been placed next to each other, with the result being they just grow over one another. If you want to have a hope of something interesting, glue the cut sides together.
The price point has and always will be set by the consumer. If no one paid $1000 a frag, no one would sell for $1000 a frag. Well since the app came out called "I'm Rich", which cost $999 and does nothing and sold 12 copies I think. We know people will spend the money so let's chuck that side of it. Now that the mariculturers and collectors know what people will pay for the extremely rare and shiny, they are not stupid and start the price high. They will sell to the wholesaler for a lot, who sells to the retailer for more, who sells to the consumer for most. Bland chalice A does not and never will start out the same price as super stunner Chalice B. everyone along the chain will usually always know how special a piece is just by looking at it. Ever want to know why bleeding apples still cost $200 a piece? Even though thousands and thousands have been brought here, price starts high at source.
This differs with Sps I think.