Group Buy with m and m, Group Disappointment

[perryxcore]

Hey There,

Just for clarity I am not trying to sling mud or brew bad blood, this is regarding a Rising Sun group buy sponsored by m and m (he is associated with Aquatic Obsessed) but for clarity, again, this was not sponsored by Aquatic Obsessed but by m and m only.

Over a year ago a group of 3 others invested several hundred dollars each into a chalice pack including electric koolaid, banana banshee, my miami, and rising sun to name a few, frags were to be cut and grown by m and m and updates to be provided on a regular basis. Once frags were cut we received our first pictures of them, and growout started. About a month later an update saying the convict didn't do well from the start and might be replaced. Weeks went by, weeks to months. After about 8 months pass and I have yet to hear anything else about the packs (of course patience is a talent and I was ready to see crazy growth after no update) so I pm'd other members to see if I missed any updates. I get a reply saying that most had died and that the member saw on ebay a couple frags that looked (I am not saying definitely are) liked frags cut for our group, m and m suggested a replacement pack to said member and then stopped all communication.

So I pm'd and e-mailed him asking how the frags were doing and what I had found out. 2 weeks and no reply. I pm more growout members to see what they knew. Another member said m and m e-mailed him back refusing refund and saying he had sent an e-mail to entire group that his tank had gone south and needed someone to volunteer to take over the frags. No one I can get in contact with has received that e-mail. So I asked m and m for a refund and an explanation of when the e-mail was sent and that if he did not reply I would have to post about this on reef2reef so others would know about this.

At this point I've asked for a refund, a replacement pack, any form of compensation for my hundreds of now wasted dollars, and it is waaaaay to late to dispute paypal. If I warrant a response somehow from m and m out of this thread I will be surprised. I understand that the group buy is a gamble, but this entire fiasco has put a bad taste in my mouth, and ruined any chance of me doing a group buy in the future.

 

[hermesfansf]

I am also in this grow out... I was asked to join this group promised by m and m that he would hire LFS to take care of his tank and his GF would also help out during his surgery. M and M accepted my payment right away, however, it was not the case for his updates on those frags. I honestly only received one update from him initially when convict frag was not doing great after fragging. After that, m and m really totally ignored my monthly update request. I was rather suspicious about this grow out as no thread under group buy was being created. A member in this grow out contacted me and mentioned to me that M and M has lost all of the pieces. I was super confused and at the same time frustrated. Therefore, I emailed him right away for clarification....guess what I had to email him back and forth several times in order for him to let me know tha he lost all the frags. I immediately request the refund, however, it was denied.

Below is the message from him after sending him several emails:

"If you did not know nor did you get the email sent out that every one else got,I did go threw a major knee surgery, I had my knee cap replaced and my leg broken in four places, I was on bed rest for two months because they couldn't cast the leg. I did ask if I should keep the corals or pass everything along and every one who replied to the message said for me to keep them. During that time my tank did go down hill and I had some issues but I did manage to get 50ish pieces to a friends house because my whole tank was looking bad. I just recently got pieces back.

Im sorry but I am going to have to Denny you on the refund. I did not offer to be the grower I was asked to and I did say and every one agreed that after the first two weeks of healing I assume no responsibility for losses. I wasn't going to do anything ridiculous but it was your choice to leave the pieces with me. If you decided to send the pieces off to another grower would I still be responsable to refund you?"

Below is my response to his denial:

I am truely sorry that you have a surgery. However, this is the only update that I received from u after months and months. Before I went in this grow out, I was told and assured that you would hire a guy from LFS to take care of your tank and at the same time your girlfriend would also on top of this. Throughout this entire time, u have become a sponsor at r2r and have sold multiple frags and frag packs, however, u have not sent me any update pics on those pieces. Don't u think that is a little but too much for me to handle now u are telling me u have lost all the pieces? On top of that I was not even informed that your tank was going downhill, surely not from your for sale thread. You surely did not ask anyone to take over theose pieces when your surgery became so critical, at least I was not being informed or asked. Please kindly refund the money to me."

I might sound upset in the email, but honestly, it is frustrating....I feel so sorry for another member in this grow out as he has also joined the dynamite frag pack grow out that m and m was also the seller/grower.

If m and m is still around, he should at least try to make things right..

 

[skinz78]

I just edited the thread. There has been some confusion about who the real m and m is and I'd like for him to stand up... LOL all kidding aside this feedback was intended for the user name of m and m and not M&M, two completely different users.

 

[hermesfansf]

Yes, I have seen him selling the chalice frags that look identical to our pieces....

 

[m and m]

I was just made aware of this thread and I wanted to logg on and I will try and get threw the massive amount of Pm's I have right now.

Mallard Originally came to me wanting a large pack, He decided that he wanted to do a grow out and kept adding to his want list. He then went off and found a few other members to go in with him, I am not 100% sure where he got them from since there was never a thread made. After some talking Mallard asked me If I would be the grower. At first I was weary about this but agreed to do it for them. I made it very clear that I would offer a three week live guarantee for all the pieces. You figure I would wait at least 2 weeks to ship out so I though three weeks was a fair amount of time to cover them since they where in my tank the hole time, but it was made clear after those three weeks I was not responsable for any deaths. I would care for them myself as many know I am very meticulous with my feeding and tank care. After the three weeks I took a clear visible picture of all the corals alive and happy. From then I will admite I did not give a month to month update I only did get a few shots out to everyone. From there if we fast forward a little I found out that I would be going in to get my knee replaced this summer. At the begining of the summer I sent out a email to all the members asking if they wanted me to keep them or pass them along. I did say that I would have my LFS coming by weekly to do Water test and check all my EQU out and my Girl friend at the time took the summer off to help me and attend to the tank since we lived together and I was on two month bed rest. Out of all the emails I sent out only two replayed to me and I spoke to two members on the phone. I Don't know there names or S/n's by heart but both where from NYC and are in my records at home. Both said I should just keep them. A long story short my tank took a rather big hit, I went from about 200 different corals to about only 20 making it. I did document and send out a few of the shots to two of the members who asked about the grow out and asked them to tell the other members I had a serious tank crash. In the end lost about 20k-30k personal money spent on coral, and if you know I didn't imports and price my corals 99% where named LE pieces of other venders. At one point I was asked about a refund from a member and I had to respectfully decline, there have been a few other grow outs gone south and the growers could not ask the vender they purchased from for a refund.

For the comment on me selling pieces on another web site that " Remarkably Ressemble" pieces I sold you could you please share what pieces? I have not posted WYSIWYG pictures over there and if you are referring to mother colony shots The only piece I have sold on another site that the grow out bought was the RO Rising sun.

If you are apart of the grow out and did not get the WYSIWYG pictures of the corals as they where or after they past please Email me with in the tittle " Grow out Request" and I will send over the pictures so you dont think this was some big scam. As said to one or two members who I have spoke to either Via Email or pm I will be trying to put together a Reliefe pack because I do feel terrible that so much was lost of yours. Here is a quick picture of when I was pulling out coral, by the end that bucket was full.


IMG_0687 by matsinger2, on Flickr

 

[kwong1998]

I am one of members who spoke M&M. I pmed M&M on satursday about the Reliefe pack, but no reply from M&M.

 

[ritter6788]

I am one of members who spoke M&M. I pmed M&M on satursday about the Reliefe pack, but no reply from M&M.

Were you part of this group buy? If you pm'd "M&M" that would be the wrong member. This thread is for "m and m" feedback.

"M&M" and "m and m" are NOT the same member.

 

[kwong1998]

I just check my outbox and I did pm m and m. here is the link that m and m selling the ro rasing sun chalice from ebay 3weeks ago. rising sun chalice | eBay

 

[ritter6788]

I just check my outbox and I did pm m and m. here is the link that m and m selling the ro rasing sun chalice from ebay 3weeks ago. rising sun chalice | eBay

Ok just checking. So you were part of this group buy?

 

[kwong1998]

I had two group out from m and m ro rasing sun and Dynamite Growout spent almost $1000 for 2 Growout

 

[hermesfansf]

I am one of members who spoke M&M. I pmed M&M on satursday about the Reliefe pack, but no reply from M&M.

Did he ever inform you that his tank was going downhill and ask you if any of us would take over the frags?

 

[kwong1998]

He told me all our grow was in his friend tank when he was in surgery. than on Sept he pm me "As it stands now almost all the grow out things where lost in the grow out." Than he never reply back to me. And he never ask me to take over the frags.

 

[kwong1998]

R2R Members now know the ebay name! Thanks.

Enlarge the pic, You can see on the picture with his vender name Aquatic Obsessed

 

[hermesfansf]

He told me all our grow was in his friend tank when he was in surgery. than on Sept he pm me "As it stands now almost all the grow out things where lost in the grow out." Than he never reply back to me. And he never ask me to take over the frags.

I really don't think he has been honest about anything....First he said he talked to one of you guys to keep those frags when his tank was going south, apparently this is not true. Second, the frags were at his friend tank without even letting us know beforehand, so it was his friend's tank crashed not his? Third, the communication was shut off until September when he told us that he has lost all the frags, who knows within this period of time he might have sold all of our frags. if he really works on replacing our frag pack, why would he still sell the rising sun on eBay??